Comments on: The Olympics, Prorogue and the Moral Vacuity of the Conservative Party http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2009/12/30/the-olympics-prorogue-and-the-moral-vacuity-of-the-conservative-party/ Conservative group weblog that publishes daily commentary on political events and topics affecting Canada, the United States and the world. Fri, 03 Feb 2012 13:41:18 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3 By: Nigeria Politics http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2009/12/30/the-olympics-prorogue-and-the-moral-vacuity-of-the-conservative-party/comment-page-1/#comment-214391 Nigeria Politics Mon, 18 Jan 2010 03:19:01 +0000 http://www.thepolitic.com/?p=7036#comment-214391 Thanks for the nice post. Thanks for the nice post.

]]> By: Sean Calder http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2009/12/30/the-olympics-prorogue-and-the-moral-vacuity-of-the-conservative-party/comment-page-1/#comment-214317 Sean Calder Thu, 07 Jan 2010 16:26:59 +0000 http://www.thepolitic.com/?p=7036#comment-214317 Well Jonathan, I don't have any issue with the proroguing of Parliament. I think that it's a good idea that in this new year, and coming out of a recession, that the government should have time to prepare a new budget based on updated information and numbers. Not a bad thing. Also, I am looking forward to the upcoming fireworks in the Senate. Primarily, to see the demise of the Long Gun Registry at long last. That issue has been a Conservative mobilizer even before it's enactment. A successful resolution to that complaint will have been long fought for and hard earned, and frankly a win for Conservatives. Second, I'm looking forward to the reforms that will be brought to the Senate, and not just to make it democratically relevant. I believe that Canadians have little interest and much scorn for the Senate because they don't have a voice in its composition. No voice means no investment, and no investment means no interest. If the Senate becomes relevant once more to the people, there will be a definite advantage and ability to creating a true and honest House of Sober Second Thought. As far as the Torture Inquiry goes, if the Opposition Parties are doing their jobs, that won't go away. It's their duty to keep issues front and center and if there is merit to those issues, then it won't just disappear because Parliament was prorogued. And if it isn't important enough to the Opposition Parties to maintain the effort to make it so, then it probably wasn't a credible issue to begin with and they were just using it as rhetorical ammunition. That being said, what I'll be watching to see is what the Opposition Parties decide to do with it. Take it into the rhetorical arena and only use it as a finger-pointing exercise, or whether they go through the same steps again to bring back the Inquiry. It really shouldn't be that difficult of an exercise for them since they've already done it once. This too will be an indicator as to how committed they are to the issue. If they leave it to rot, then a major complaint should be brought by the same complainers against the Opposition Parties, no? Well Jonathan, I don’t have any issue with the proroguing of Parliament. I think that it’s a good idea that in this new year, and coming out of a recession, that the government should have time to prepare a new budget based on updated information and numbers. Not a bad thing.

Also, I am looking forward to the upcoming fireworks in the Senate. Primarily, to see the demise of the Long Gun Registry at long last. That issue has been a Conservative mobilizer even before it’s enactment. A successful resolution to that complaint will have been long fought for and hard earned, and frankly a win for Conservatives.

Second, I’m looking forward to the reforms that will be brought to the Senate, and not just to make it democratically relevant. I believe that Canadians have little interest and much scorn for the Senate because they don’t have a voice in its composition. No voice means no investment, and no investment means no interest. If the Senate becomes relevant once more to the people, there will be a definite advantage and ability to creating a true and honest House of Sober Second Thought.

As far as the Torture Inquiry goes, if the Opposition Parties are doing their jobs, that won’t go away. It’s their duty to keep issues front and center and if there is merit to those issues, then it won’t just disappear because Parliament was prorogued. And if it isn’t important enough to the Opposition Parties to maintain the effort to make it so, then it probably wasn’t a credible issue to begin with and they were just using it as rhetorical ammunition.

That being said, what I’ll be watching to see is what the Opposition Parties decide to do with it. Take it into the rhetorical arena and only use it as a finger-pointing exercise, or whether they go through the same steps again to bring back the Inquiry. It really shouldn’t be that difficult of an exercise for them since they’ve already done it once. This too will be an indicator as to how committed they are to the issue.

If they leave it to rot, then a major complaint should be brought by the same complainers against the Opposition Parties, no?

]]> By: Mark Peters http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2009/12/30/the-olympics-prorogue-and-the-moral-vacuity-of-the-conservative-party/comment-page-1/#comment-214312 Mark Peters Sat, 02 Jan 2010 22:50:07 +0000 http://www.thepolitic.com/?p=7036#comment-214312 The vast majority of people with whom I discussed the proroguing are disgusted by its length and could care less about the plausible motives behind it. I concur as well with those who opine that Joe Canadian is about as concerned about the torture allegations as he is about the price of bootstraps in Thailand. The vast majority of people with whom I discussed the proroguing are disgusted by its length and could care less about the plausible motives behind it.

I concur as well with those who opine that Joe Canadian is about as concerned about the torture allegations as he is about the price of bootstraps in Thailand.

]]> By: Brrr http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2009/12/30/the-olympics-prorogue-and-the-moral-vacuity-of-the-conservative-party/comment-page-1/#comment-214311 Brrr Sat, 02 Jan 2010 19:52:44 +0000 http://www.thepolitic.com/?p=7036#comment-214311 Abattoir, My wording should have been more clear. I did not mean to say that Chetien and Trudeau prorogued during the Olympics. I meant THIS prorogue (that happens to be during the Olympics), is no more scandalous than the multiple examples of previous Prime Ministers who also utilized prorogation. Abattoir,

My wording should have been more clear.

I did not mean to say that Chetien and Trudeau prorogued during the Olympics. I meant THIS prorogue (that happens to be during the Olympics), is no more scandalous than the multiple examples of previous Prime Ministers who also utilized prorogation.

]]> By: Abattoir http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2009/12/30/the-olympics-prorogue-and-the-moral-vacuity-of-the-conservative-party/comment-page-1/#comment-214310 Abattoir Sat, 02 Jan 2010 03:47:59 +0000 http://www.thepolitic.com/?p=7036#comment-214310 @Brr, I don't know where you got that, but you should check your facts. Based on the dates for both Parliamentary sessions and Olympics (both Winter and Summer), Trudeau didn't prorogue Parliament once in time for the Olympics, and he was about as conservative as Harper with the reset button. @Brr,
I don’t know where you got that, but you should check your facts. Based on the dates for both Parliamentary sessions and Olympics (both Winter and Summer), Trudeau didn’t prorogue Parliament once in time for the Olympics, and he was about as conservative as Harper with the reset button.

]]> By: Brrr http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2009/12/30/the-olympics-prorogue-and-the-moral-vacuity-of-the-conservative-party/comment-page-1/#comment-214309 Brrr Fri, 01 Jan 2010 22:03:28 +0000 http://www.thepolitic.com/?p=7036#comment-214309 I wonder if those so outraged at Harper proroguing parliament during the Olympics were just as outraged when Chretien did it four times, or when Trudeau did it four times as well. There's nothing even remotely scandalous about this. It's a normal course of action for a sitting government under our system. Not only that, but it's good idea too. Parliament absolutely should be taking a break during the Olympics. We don't need the increasingly escalating mock-outrage over faux-scandals from the opposition while the world is watching. It's a time to just put politics aside and show some pride in our country. The only head scratcher is why they were scheduled to return at the end of January in the first place. I wonder if those so outraged at Harper proroguing parliament during the Olympics were just as outraged when Chretien did it four times, or when Trudeau did it four times as well.

There’s nothing even remotely scandalous about this. It’s a normal course of action for a sitting government under our system.

Not only that, but it’s good idea too. Parliament absolutely should be taking a break during the Olympics. We don’t need the increasingly escalating mock-outrage over faux-scandals from the opposition while the world is watching. It’s a time to just put politics aside and show some pride in our country. The only head scratcher is why they were scheduled to return at the end of January in the first place.

]]> By: zoop http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2009/12/30/the-olympics-prorogue-and-the-moral-vacuity-of-the-conservative-party/comment-page-1/#comment-214308 zoop Fri, 01 Jan 2010 20:22:37 +0000 http://www.thepolitic.com/?p=7036#comment-214308 "this government is an accomplice to torture" I guess the recent supreme court ruling has given you the courage to libel. “this government is an accomplice to torture”

I guess the recent supreme court ruling has given you the courage to libel.

]]> By: Jonathan McLeod http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2009/12/30/the-olympics-prorogue-and-the-moral-vacuity-of-the-conservative-party/comment-page-1/#comment-214307 Jonathan McLeod Fri, 01 Jan 2010 16:21:49 +0000 http://www.thepolitic.com/?p=7036#comment-214307 @Joan So, an unelected Governor General, appointed to represent a hereditary monarchy, should decide who gets to be Prime Minister because you don't like the government's environmental policy? Personally, I'd like to see more democracy, not less. @Joan
So, an unelected Governor General, appointed to represent a hereditary monarchy, should decide who gets to be Prime Minister because you don’t like the government’s environmental policy?

Personally, I’d like to see more democracy, not less.

]]> By: Joan Russow http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2009/12/30/the-olympics-prorogue-and-the-moral-vacuity-of-the-conservative-party/comment-page-1/#comment-214306 Joan Russow Fri, 01 Jan 2010 15:20:40 +0000 http://www.thepolitic.com/?p=7036#comment-214306 The Governor General erred again in appeasing Harper; now she must must correctly use her residual powers under Article V – to remove Harper from office, for negligence and call upon the Opposition Parties to govern. How long will Canadians be prepared for the sake of avoiding an election to allow an unethical government which has engaged in fraudulent practices, and evasive techniques, and unscrupulous actions, govern. How much longer will a compliant Governor General support such practices, techniques and actions? The Governor General erred twice in dissolving and proroguing Parliament, (under Article VI) of her Letters Patent. Now she must correctly use her residual powers under Article V – to remove Harper from office, and call upon the Opposition Parties to govern. Under Article V she has the following residual powers: V. “AND WE DO FURTHER AUTHORIZE AND EMPOWER OUR GOVERNOR GENERAL, SO FAR AS WE LAWFULLY MAY, UPON SUFFICIENT CAUSE TO HIM APPEARING, TO REMOVE FROM HIS OFFICE, OR TO SUSPEND FROM THE EXERCISE OF THE SAME, ANY PERSON EXERCISING ANY OFFICE WITHIN CANADA, UNDER OR BY VIRTUE OF ANY COMMISSION OR WARRANT GRANTED, OR WHICH MAY BE GRANTED, BY US IN OUR NAME OR UNDER OUR AUTHORITY.” There is sufficient cause to remove Harper:. At the COP 15 Conference, Harper, as Prime Minister, under the Canadian Constitution can enter into a legally binding agreement. At COP 15, he ignored all the new emerging scientific evidence that was presented, by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), and by the World Meteorological Organization (WMO) about the consequences from climate change being increasingly more serious than anticipated in the IPCC 2007 report which was based on 2004 and 2005 data. Even though at several times his minority government had been urged by the other opposition parties to agree to a commitment by Canada to decrease greenhouse gas emissions by 25% below 1990 levels, he refused to change his announced commitment to 20% below 2006 levels (3% below 1990) levels. His failure to act responsibly on the urgent issue of climate change demonstrated gross negligence. At Copenhagen, Canada was finally on the map; it was clear in the Table 1 of Annex Commitments in the so-called Copenhagen Accord that Canada had used the 2006 base line, for emissions reductions, which amounted to little more than 3% below 1990 levels,. In addition, the minority Canadian Government did not even have the courage to face the international media; it held cubbyhole press conferences which were carefully orchestrated. The Conservative Government was known everywhere for the tar sands and their continued obstructionism during the negotiations. Now if Parliament is prorogued even the minimal C 311 bill on climate change will be off the agenda. In fact, Bill Rees, in his article "Is Canada Guilty of Climate Negligence?” refers to the applicable sections in Criminal Law which could indicate that Canada could be guilty of negligence. Canadian common law provides useful guidance. Environmental negligence suits focus on compensation for loss caused by unreasonable conduct that damages legally protected interests. Unreasonable conduct means doing something that a prudent or reasonable person would not do, or failing to do something that a reasonable person would do. The plaintiff must establish certain key elements of the tort‹ cause in fact and proximate cause, damages, legal duty, and breach of the standard of care. Note that fault may be found even in the case of unintended harm if it stems from unreasonable conduct. The Criminal Code (Section 219) is even clearer that lack of intent to harm is no defence if damage results from conscious acts performed in careless disregard for others: “Everyone is criminally negligent who (a) in doing anything, or (b) in omitting to do anything that it is his duty to do, shows wanton or reckless disregard for the lives or safety of other persons” (where ‘duty¹ means a duty imposed by law). Significantly, Section 222(5)(b) states that ³a person commits homicide when, directly or indirectly, by any means, he causes the death of a human being, by being negligent (emphasis added).’ The Governor General erred again in appeasing Harper; now she must must correctly use her residual powers under Article V – to remove Harper from office, for negligence and call upon the Opposition Parties to govern.

How long will Canadians be prepared for the sake of avoiding an election to allow an unethical government which has engaged in fraudulent practices, and evasive techniques, and unscrupulous actions, govern. How much longer will a compliant Governor General support such practices, techniques and actions? The Governor General erred twice in dissolving and proroguing Parliament, (under Article VI) of her Letters Patent. Now she must correctly use her residual powers under Article V – to remove Harper from office, and call upon the Opposition Parties to govern.

Under Article V she has the following residual powers:
V. “AND WE DO FURTHER AUTHORIZE AND EMPOWER OUR GOVERNOR GENERAL, SO FAR AS WE LAWFULLY MAY, UPON SUFFICIENT CAUSE TO HIM APPEARING, TO REMOVE FROM HIS OFFICE, OR TO SUSPEND FROM THE EXERCISE OF THE SAME, ANY PERSON EXERCISING ANY OFFICE WITHIN CANADA, UNDER OR BY VIRTUE OF ANY COMMISSION OR WARRANT GRANTED, OR WHICH MAY BE GRANTED, BY US IN OUR NAME OR UNDER OUR AUTHORITY.”

There is sufficient cause to remove Harper:.
At the COP 15 Conference, Harper, as Prime Minister, under the Canadian Constitution can enter into a legally binding agreement. At COP 15, he ignored all the new emerging scientific evidence that was presented, by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), and by the World Meteorological Organization (WMO) about the consequences from climate change being increasingly more serious than anticipated in the IPCC 2007 report which was based on 2004 and 2005 data. Even though at several times his minority government had been urged by the other opposition parties to agree to a commitment by Canada to decrease greenhouse gas emissions by 25% below 1990 levels, he refused to change his announced commitment to 20% below 2006 levels (3% below 1990) levels. His failure to act responsibly on the urgent issue of climate change demonstrated gross negligence.

At Copenhagen, Canada was finally on the map; it was clear in the Table 1 of Annex Commitments in the so-called Copenhagen Accord that Canada had used the 2006 base line, for emissions reductions, which amounted to little more than 3% below 1990 levels,. In addition, the minority Canadian Government did not even have the courage to face the international media; it held cubbyhole press conferences which were carefully orchestrated. The Conservative Government was known everywhere for the tar sands and their continued obstructionism during the negotiations. Now if Parliament is prorogued even the minimal C 311 bill on climate change will be off the agenda.

In fact, Bill Rees, in his article “Is Canada Guilty of Climate Negligence?” refers to the applicable sections in Criminal Law which could indicate that Canada could be guilty of negligence.

Canadian common law provides useful guidance. Environmental negligence suits focus on compensation for loss caused by unreasonable conduct that damages legally protected interests. Unreasonable conduct means doing something that a prudent or reasonable person would not do, or failing to do something that a reasonable person would do. The plaintiff must establish certain key elements of the tort‹ cause in fact and proximate cause, damages, legal duty, and breach of the standard of care. Note that fault may be found even in the case of unintended harm if it stems from unreasonable conduct.

The Criminal Code (Section 219) is even clearer that lack of intent to harm is no defence if damage results from conscious acts performed in careless disregard for others: “Everyone is criminally negligent who (a) in doing anything, or (b) in omitting to do anything that it is his duty to do, shows wanton or reckless disregard for the lives or safety of other persons” (where ‘duty¹ means a duty imposed by law). Significantly, Section 222(5)(b) states that ³a person commits homicide when, directly or indirectly, by any means, he causes the death of a human being, by being negligent (emphasis added).’

]]> By: NeilD http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2009/12/30/the-olympics-prorogue-and-the-moral-vacuity-of-the-conservative-party/comment-page-1/#comment-214303 NeilD Fri, 01 Jan 2010 01:02:35 +0000 http://www.thepolitic.com/?p=7036#comment-214303 Maxwell says: and condeming the brutality of the taliban in one sentence while advocating torture in the prior sentence is just…. well, ridiculous.`` Equating the vicious hanging of an innocent teenager by barbed wire with a Taliban suspect being beaten with a shoe is just....well, ridiculous. Maxwell says:
and condeming the brutality of the taliban in one sentence while advocating torture in the prior sentence is just…. well, ridiculous.“

Equating the vicious hanging of an innocent teenager by barbed wire with a Taliban suspect being beaten with a shoe is just….well, ridiculous.

]]> By: Abattoir http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2009/12/30/the-olympics-prorogue-and-the-moral-vacuity-of-the-conservative-party/comment-page-1/#comment-214302 Abattoir Thu, 31 Dec 2009 19:46:56 +0000 http://www.thepolitic.com/?p=7036#comment-214302 @canadianesense, This is not a vacation. All bills that have not yet received royal assent are now dead. All committees must now be re-formed, restarted, and all prior work is thrown out. Question Period, the mockery that it is, is suspended. All possibilities of holding the Government accountable for its actions (or lack thereof) are suspended. Prorogation is not some trick to be used whenever it suits the whims of the Government. It is a hard reboot of Parliament. It is being used to short-circuit the efforts of the opposition. This is a parliamentary democracy, but Harper is trying to run it like a republic. He is a prime minister, not a president. If you want a president, move. @canadianesense,
This is not a vacation. All bills that have not yet received royal assent are now dead. All committees must now be re-formed, restarted, and all prior work is thrown out. Question Period, the mockery that it is, is suspended. All possibilities of holding the Government accountable for its actions (or lack thereof) are suspended.

Prorogation is not some trick to be used whenever it suits the whims of the Government. It is a hard reboot of Parliament. It is being used to short-circuit the efforts of the opposition. This is a parliamentary democracy, but Harper is trying to run it like a republic. He is a prime minister, not a president. If you want a president, move.

]]> By: Abattoir http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2009/12/30/the-olympics-prorogue-and-the-moral-vacuity-of-the-conservative-party/comment-page-1/#comment-214301 Abattoir Thu, 31 Dec 2009 19:41:45 +0000 http://www.thepolitic.com/?p=7036#comment-214301 Some Canadian private, straight out of basic, rounds up a couple of Afghani farmers because he thinks they might know somebody or something to do with the Taliban. His superiors hand them over to the Afghan officials, who then torture them for any information they may or may not have. Please, how could anyone but a racist pig justify even the possibility of this happening under our watch? I don't give two ***** if the Taliban don't respect the rule of law. Canada does. If there is even the remotest possibility that Canadians knew this could be happening, and went along with it anyway, then heads should roll. There are plausible allegations of this happening, on our watch. Nobody, not even Harper, has the right to stop or impede an investigation to uncover the truth here. Their first tactic was to discredit the messenger. When that didn't work, they started confusing "uncovering the truth" with "defending terrorists". Some of you obviously bought that line. Finally, faced with the threat of forced disclosure by Parliamentary order, they prorogued Parliament AGAIN. This is not how a democracy is supposed to work. Some Canadian private, straight out of basic, rounds up a couple of Afghani farmers because he thinks they might know somebody or something to do with the Taliban. His superiors hand them over to the Afghan officials, who then torture them for any information they may or may not have.

Please, how could anyone but a racist pig justify even the possibility of this happening under our watch? I don’t give two ***** if the Taliban don’t respect the rule of law. Canada does. If there is even the remotest possibility that Canadians knew this could be happening, and went along with it anyway, then heads should roll.

There are plausible allegations of this happening, on our watch. Nobody, not even Harper, has the right to stop or impede an investigation to uncover the truth here. Their first tactic was to discredit the messenger. When that didn’t work, they started confusing “uncovering the truth” with “defending terrorists”. Some of you obviously bought that line. Finally, faced with the threat of forced disclosure by Parliamentary order, they prorogued Parliament AGAIN.

This is not how a democracy is supposed to work.

]]> By: RD http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2009/12/30/the-olympics-prorogue-and-the-moral-vacuity-of-the-conservative-party/comment-page-1/#comment-214299 RD Thu, 31 Dec 2009 14:48:25 +0000 http://www.thepolitic.com/?p=7036#comment-214299 Also, if I had to choose between the Olympics and having a functioning and democratic elected government, I'd cancel this and every subsequent Olympic games. Also, if I had to choose between the Olympics and having a functioning and democratic elected government, I’d cancel this and every subsequent Olympic games.

]]> By: RD http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2009/12/30/the-olympics-prorogue-and-the-moral-vacuity-of-the-conservative-party/comment-page-1/#comment-214298 RD Thu, 31 Dec 2009 14:45:41 +0000 http://www.thepolitic.com/?p=7036#comment-214298 This is a pretty sad day. The conservatives more than hold their own during question period, they have more seats, they are doing well in the polls, what on earth would justify proroguing parliament? Harper wants to only resume parliament after the throne speech and immediately table a budget? What have we come to? To spread the blame around, what did Paul Martin start with this proroguing? This is a pretty sad day.
The conservatives more than hold their own during question period, they have more seats, they are doing well in the polls, what on earth would justify proroguing parliament?
Harper wants to only resume parliament after the throne speech and immediately table a budget? What have we come to?

To spread the blame around, what did Paul Martin start with this proroguing?

]]> By: maxwell http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2009/12/30/the-olympics-prorogue-and-the-moral-vacuity-of-the-conservative-party/comment-page-1/#comment-214296 maxwell Thu, 31 Dec 2009 06:24:15 +0000 http://www.thepolitic.com/?p=7036#comment-214296 Wow. Harper is the one usurping the parliamentary democracy here, pure and simple. I love how the majority of you seem to think the stalinist left are somehow related to this (or are just willfully ignoring all of this and continuing your usual fear mongering.) as to the media loving the taliban.... christ that line gets old. you all fail to realize that afghanis NOT= taliban. this is not a nation v nation conflict.... you've had a decade to come to terms with this and have failed to do so. and condeming the brutality of the taliban in one sentence while advocating torture in the prior sentence is just.... well, ridiculous. Wow. Harper is the one usurping the parliamentary democracy here, pure and simple. I love how the majority of you seem to think the stalinist left are somehow related to this (or are just willfully ignoring all of this and continuing your usual fear mongering.)

as to the media loving the taliban…. christ that line gets old. you all fail to realize that afghanis NOT= taliban. this is not a nation v nation conflict…. you’ve had a decade to come to terms with this and have failed to do so.

and condeming the brutality of the taliban in one sentence while advocating torture in the prior sentence is just…. well, ridiculous.

]]> By: helen http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2009/12/30/the-olympics-prorogue-and-the-moral-vacuity-of-the-conservative-party/comment-page-1/#comment-214294 helen Thu, 31 Dec 2009 05:46:22 +0000 http://www.thepolitic.com/?p=7036#comment-214294 Hmm. Lies. Like "tax and spend Liberals"? When the biggest deficts balloon under Conservative governments. Hmm. Lies.
Like “tax and spend Liberals”?
When the biggest deficts balloon under Conservative governments.

]]> By: canadiansense http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2009/12/30/the-olympics-prorogue-and-the-moral-vacuity-of-the-conservative-party/comment-page-1/#comment-214293 canadiansense Thu, 31 Dec 2009 04:48:58 +0000 http://www.thepolitic.com/?p=7036#comment-214293 How does a five week extension (vacation) with pay hurt democracy? I forgot the left like to tell lies. This is a WIN-WIN for the angry left. The coalition parties have a simple choice. Hold to your lies and withdraw your confidence from the Throne Speech. The Coalition agreed an Election was a great stimulus for the economy in 2008/2009. Clearly Canadians will support the Coalition redux 2. Do the opposition parties trust voters with our democracy? How does a five week extension (vacation) with pay hurt democracy?

I forgot the left like to tell lies.

This is a WIN-WIN for the angry left.

The coalition parties have a simple choice. Hold to your lies and withdraw your confidence from the Throne Speech.

The Coalition agreed an Election was a great stimulus for the economy in 2008/2009.

Clearly Canadians will support the Coalition redux 2.

Do the opposition parties trust voters with our democracy?

]]> By: Powell Lucas http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2009/12/30/the-olympics-prorogue-and-the-moral-vacuity-of-the-conservative-party/comment-page-1/#comment-214292 Powell Lucas Thu, 31 Dec 2009 04:20:04 +0000 http://www.thepolitic.com/?p=7036#comment-214292 Actually, the longer these clowns stay out the less damage they can do to the country. Actually, the longer these clowns stay out the less damage they can do to the country.

]]> By: Jonathan McLeod http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2009/12/30/the-olympics-prorogue-and-the-moral-vacuity-of-the-conservative-party/comment-page-1/#comment-214291 Jonathan McLeod Thu, 31 Dec 2009 03:35:51 +0000 http://www.thepolitic.com/?p=7036#comment-214291 @Blame Crash My wife and I thought your initial comment was great. Your second comment is a complete non sequitor. @helen Thanks for the support, but, to be fair, the romance of my wife and I was solidified during religious viewing of the first season of Paradise Hotel. I can assure you, she's not a cave man. :) @Blame Crash
My wife and I thought your initial comment was great. Your second comment is a complete non sequitor.

@helen
Thanks for the support, but, to be fair, the romance of my wife and I was solidified during religious viewing of the first season of Paradise Hotel. I can assure you, she’s not a cave man. :)

]]> By: helen http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2009/12/30/the-olympics-prorogue-and-the-moral-vacuity-of-the-conservative-party/comment-page-1/#comment-214290 helen Thu, 31 Dec 2009 03:14:53 +0000 http://www.thepolitic.com/?p=7036#comment-214290 Half of you sound like cave men.Go back to your caves and your reality tv.You're afraid of real democracy like your American Conservative counterparts. All you want is some consumer-nirvana version of democracy. Bring back the educated Elites. Half of you sound like cave men.Go back to your caves and your reality tv.You’re afraid of real democracy like your American Conservative counterparts. All you want is some consumer-nirvana version of democracy.
Bring back the educated Elites.

]]> By: Blame Crash http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2009/12/30/the-olympics-prorogue-and-the-moral-vacuity-of-the-conservative-party/comment-page-1/#comment-214289 Blame Crash Thu, 31 Dec 2009 01:41:38 +0000 http://www.thepolitic.com/?p=7036#comment-214289 So I see the Taliban have viciously murdered 5 more Canadians. The Coalition Kooks and the Toronto media now have to find a way to defend their much loved Taliban (AKA : farmers) and deflect all the blame towards the Conservatives. Although that shouldn't be hard for those low life dirtbags. They're pro's when it comes to making up shit. So I see the Taliban have viciously murdered 5 more Canadians.

The Coalition Kooks and the Toronto media now have to find a way to defend their much loved Taliban (AKA : farmers) and deflect all the blame towards the Conservatives. Although that shouldn’t be hard for those low life dirtbags. They’re pro’s when it comes to making up shit.

]]> By: Jonathan McLeod http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2009/12/30/the-olympics-prorogue-and-the-moral-vacuity-of-the-conservative-party/comment-page-1/#comment-214288 Jonathan McLeod Thu, 31 Dec 2009 01:02:21 +0000 http://www.thepolitic.com/?p=7036#comment-214288 Thanks for the comments, everyone. @Joshua So we're going to judge our government on the basis of whether or not they're better than the Taliban? That's a pretty low bar. @NeilD It wasn't the opposition that yelled 'torture', it was a diplomat. The opposition demanded he be heard; the government wanted him silenced. That was the first strike against them. @Blame Crash Your comment brought a smile to this pouty face, thanks! @ferrethouse Well, the government (and maybe the GG) should be docked pay. I have no problem still paying the members of the parties that want parliament to resume. By the way, if this is such a non-issue, why won't the Tories just bring everything to light and let the public judge? @canadiansense Basically, I agree. I'm not going to miss Harper, Duceppe, Layton or Ignatieff while Parliament is taking a vacation. It might not be a bad idea to make them all part time jobs, but that shouldn't be done unilaterally by the Prime Minister for the Prime Minister's political gains. Thanks for the comments, everyone.

@Joshua
So we’re going to judge our government on the basis of whether or not they’re better than the Taliban? That’s a pretty low bar.

@NeilD
It wasn’t the opposition that yelled ‘torture’, it was a diplomat. The opposition demanded he be heard; the government wanted him silenced. That was the first strike against them.

@Blame Crash
Your comment brought a smile to this pouty face, thanks!

@ferrethouse
Well, the government (and maybe the GG) should be docked pay. I have no problem still paying the members of the parties that want parliament to resume. By the way, if this is such a non-issue, why won’t the Tories just bring everything to light and let the public judge?

@canadiansense
Basically, I agree. I’m not going to miss Harper, Duceppe, Layton or Ignatieff while Parliament is taking a vacation. It might not be a bad idea to make them all part time jobs, but that shouldn’t be done unilaterally by the Prime Minister for the Prime Minister’s political gains.

]]> By: canadiansense http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2009/12/30/the-olympics-prorogue-and-the-moral-vacuity-of-the-conservative-party/comment-page-1/#comment-214287 canadiansense Wed, 30 Dec 2009 23:23:42 +0000 http://www.thepolitic.com/?p=7036#comment-214287 During a period of prorogation (or recess), the Speaker, the Prime Minister, Ministers and Parliamentary Secretaries remain in office and all Members of the House retain their full rights and privileges. I don't see an issue with pressing a reset button on the Senate and Parliament. The Majority in the opposition are free to reject the budget, throne speech over this decision. I for one don't care that some in the opposition are unhappy with the Agenda of the current government and repeatedly fail to act to stop it through introducing alternatives policies or withdrawal of confidence. The Senate was being used by the Liberals to subvert the decisions of the Parliament. Other than some lost business in Ottawa at the restaurants, drycleaners, who will miss the MP not returning for two months? During a period of prorogation (or recess), the Speaker, the Prime Minister, Ministers and Parliamentary Secretaries remain in office and all Members of the House retain their full rights and privileges.

I don’t see an issue with pressing a reset button on the Senate and Parliament.

The Majority in the opposition are free to reject the budget, throne speech over this decision.

I for one don’t care that some in the opposition are unhappy with the Agenda of the current government and repeatedly fail to act to stop it through introducing alternatives policies or withdrawal of confidence.

The Senate was being used by the Liberals to subvert the decisions of the Parliament.

Other than some lost business in Ottawa at the restaurants, drycleaners, who will miss the MP not returning for two months?

]]> By: ferrethouse http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2009/12/30/the-olympics-prorogue-and-the-moral-vacuity-of-the-conservative-party/comment-page-1/#comment-214286 ferrethouse Wed, 30 Dec 2009 23:00:35 +0000 http://www.thepolitic.com/?p=7036#comment-214286 Oh - and the average Canadian doesn't care about this torture issue. It is just bleeding heart liberals like yourself and the media that care. I just wish they would use real torture techniques instead of this fake torture like sleep deprivation and waterboarding. Oh – and the average Canadian doesn’t care about this torture issue. It is just bleeding heart liberals like yourself and the media that care. I just wish they would use real torture techniques instead of this fake torture like sleep deprivation and waterboarding.

]]> By: ferrethouse http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2009/12/30/the-olympics-prorogue-and-the-moral-vacuity-of-the-conservative-party/comment-page-1/#comment-214285 ferrethouse Wed, 30 Dec 2009 22:57:10 +0000 http://www.thepolitic.com/?p=7036#comment-214285 I don't have a problem with them doing this. But I do think that a law should be passed whereby they aren't paid during these extended holidays (or at least paid at a reduced rate). Let's face it. Anything they managed to accomplish during this 2 month absence would simply be stalled by the unelected senate anyway. So things wouldn't be getting done anyway... I don’t have a problem with them doing this. But I do think that a law should be passed whereby they aren’t paid during these extended holidays (or at least paid at a reduced rate).

Let’s face it. Anything they managed to accomplish during this 2 month absence would simply be stalled by the unelected senate anyway. So things wouldn’t be getting done anyway…

]]> By: Blame Crash http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2009/12/30/the-olympics-prorogue-and-the-moral-vacuity-of-the-conservative-party/comment-page-1/#comment-214284 Blame Crash Wed, 30 Dec 2009 20:59:47 +0000 http://www.thepolitic.com/?p=7036#comment-214284 Wow! That’s quite the pout you have on display! Were you pining for another Coup attempt by your beloved Gliberals and now it’s all for naught? I guess the subjugation of Canadian democracy is going to have to wait. But look on the bright side, your beloved Gliberals and the Toronto Media will have more time to defend the Taliban. After all, those suicide bombing, firing squad and head hacking aficionado’s are loved and respected by all Canadians. Vacuity indeed! Wow! That’s quite the pout you have on display! Were you pining for another Coup attempt by your beloved Gliberals and now it’s all for naught?

I guess the subjugation of Canadian democracy is going to have to wait.

But look on the bright side, your beloved Gliberals and the Toronto Media will have more time to defend the Taliban. After all, those suicide bombing, firing squad and head hacking aficionado’s are loved and respected by all Canadians.

Vacuity indeed!

]]> By: NeilD http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2009/12/30/the-olympics-prorogue-and-the-moral-vacuity-of-the-conservative-party/comment-page-1/#comment-214283 NeilD Wed, 30 Dec 2009 20:30:30 +0000 http://www.thepolitic.com/?p=7036#comment-214283 "this government is an accomplice to torture" What claptrap. A nation's government is held hostage as the opposition yells "torturers!" because someone was beaten with a shoe and you fall right in line behind them. I personally don't care if PM Harper himself was wielding the shoe. This is a dirty war and, quite frankly, if the enemy has to have information beaten out of them then I say go for it. I'm tired of pussy-footing around to appease the Politically Correct among us while real people die on a daily basis. Instead, let's go after the Taliban who wrapped barbed wire around the neck of a teenage boy, stuffed his mouth with American bills and hung him from a tree til he was dead. Or maybe the Taliban who threw acid in the faces of young Afghani school girls. Or the enemy combatants who claim so many victims of roadside bombings. “this government is an accomplice to torture”
What claptrap.
A nation’s government is held hostage as the opposition yells “torturers!” because someone was beaten with a shoe and you fall right in line behind them.
I personally don’t care if PM Harper himself was wielding the shoe. This is a dirty war and, quite frankly, if the enemy has to have information beaten out of them then I say go for it.
I’m tired of pussy-footing around to appease the Politically Correct among us while real people die on a daily basis.
Instead, let’s go after the Taliban who wrapped barbed wire around the neck of a teenage boy, stuffed his mouth with American bills and hung him from a tree til he was dead. Or maybe the Taliban who threw acid in the faces of young Afghani school girls. Or the enemy combatants who claim so many victims of roadside bombings.

]]> By: Joshua http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2009/12/30/the-olympics-prorogue-and-the-moral-vacuity-of-the-conservative-party/comment-page-1/#comment-214282 Joshua Wed, 30 Dec 2009 19:31:30 +0000 http://www.thepolitic.com/?p=7036#comment-214282 But I’m not an idiot. These issues may play into the political calculations (rarely would a government act without considering a variety of implications), but there is little doubt that they are trying to make the populace forget that this government is an accomplice to torture. The Conservative Party has attempted to thwart investigations into the question of the treatment of prisoners in Afghanistan for months. More and more evidence is appearing implicating various members of our government of, at the very least, unacceptable ignorance of torture. As this story has grown and evolved, the government has acted all the more guilty, all the more complicit. Where we once might have accepted a mea culpa, we must now only accept a scalp. This is the same arguement that got Obama south of the border elected as far as im concerned.Fear.Nothing but unsubstantiated fear based on opinion.Tell me,do the Taliban recognize the Geneva convention?The UN?Human rights?The rule of law(and not islamic law btw)? Furthermore have you got any evidence that we as Canadians can use in the supreme court?To my knowledge so far, the Left the the US has fallen flat on its face so bad now about this type of issue its lost plenty of credibility (not that it had much to begin with). No i dont want emails to some hate filled website who despise christians,jews,muslims,black,gays ,america,or capitalism. If you do have evidence make sure it goes to both media types conservative and liberal not the spin doctors. But I’m not an idiot. These issues may play into the political calculations (rarely would a government act without considering a variety of implications), but there is little doubt that they are trying to make the populace forget that this government is an accomplice to torture. The Conservative Party has attempted to thwart investigations into the question of the treatment of prisoners in Afghanistan for months. More and more evidence is appearing implicating various members of our government of, at the very least, unacceptable ignorance of torture. As this story has grown and evolved, the government has acted all the more guilty, all the more complicit. Where we once might have accepted a mea culpa, we must now only accept a scalp.

This is the same arguement that got Obama south of the border elected as far as im concerned.Fear.Nothing but unsubstantiated fear based on opinion.Tell me,do the Taliban recognize the Geneva convention?The UN?Human rights?The rule of law(and not islamic law btw)?
Furthermore have you got any evidence that we as Canadians can use in the supreme court?To my knowledge so far, the Left the the US has fallen flat on its face so bad now about this type of issue its lost plenty of credibility (not that it had much to begin with).
No i dont want emails to some hate filled website who despise christians,jews,muslims,black,gays ,america,or capitalism.
If you do have evidence make sure it goes to both media types conservative and liberal not the spin doctors.

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