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	<title>Comments on: Barack Obama&#8217;s Latest Kowtow: An Affront to Liberty</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2009/11/17/barack-obamas-latest-kowtow-an-affront-to-liberty/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2009/11/17/barack-obamas-latest-kowtow-an-affront-to-liberty/</link>
	<description>Conservative group weblog that publishes daily commentary on political events and topics affecting Canada, the United States and the world.</description>
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		<title>By: balbulican</title>
		<link>http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2009/11/17/barack-obamas-latest-kowtow-an-affront-to-liberty/comment-page-1/#comment-213921</link>
		<dc:creator>balbulican</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 11:43:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thepolitic.com/?p=6817#comment-213921</guid>
		<description>&quot;I believe the leader of the free world should have a similar mindset.&quot;

Interesting phrase. 

Mr. Obama is the President of the most prosperous and militarily powerful country on earth at the moment. He is not, however, my leader, or Canada&#039;s leader, or Great Britain&#039;s leader, or Germany&#039;s leader, or Japan&#039;s leader - and I imagine the great majority of citizens in the free world would take exception to your anointing him as our &quot;leader&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I believe the leader of the free world should have a similar mindset.&#8221;</p>
<p>Interesting phrase. </p>
<p>Mr. Obama is the President of the most prosperous and militarily powerful country on earth at the moment. He is not, however, my leader, or Canada&#8217;s leader, or Great Britain&#8217;s leader, or Germany&#8217;s leader, or Japan&#8217;s leader &#8211; and I imagine the great majority of citizens in the free world would take exception to your anointing him as our &#8220;leader&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan McLeod</title>
		<link>http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2009/11/17/barack-obamas-latest-kowtow-an-affront-to-liberty/comment-page-1/#comment-213918</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan McLeod</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 05:41:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thepolitic.com/?p=6817#comment-213918</guid>
		<description>As I wrote, I don&#039;t think this incident should be the defining moment of Mr. Obama&#039;s presidency.  I think it should be a concern, and I think he&#039;s begun an unfortunate pattern of deference to monarchs.

My motivation for writing this post was to delve into my own political philosophy.  I find that it is often these issues that lie at the margin of political life, and are of marginal importance, that can really help one define one&#039;s political philosophy.  This issue may not do that for others, but it does for me.

I love liberal democracy (and I&#039;m not claiming others don&#039;t).  I feel that liberty, responsibility and political sovereignty are some of the greatest gifts that we in the west have received.  I think freedom and liberty must be vigorously defended, and routinely deferred to.  The point of freedom is not merely to lead to a good result, but to give us the opportunity to reach the best result, even if we will, at times, fail.

I believe the leader of the free world should have a similar mindset.  I believe that western democracy, often through its leaders, should demonstrate pride and strength in democracy.  I think this excessive bowing transgresses this imperative for liberty - though I don&#039;t think Mr. Obama&#039;s bow to the emperor has caused any great harm to liberty.

This issue may be somewhat meaningless.  No doubt, it should be out of the news pretty quickly.  But, if only for me, the underlying issues and concepts strike at my political philosophy.  Perhaps, my expounding on what the matter means to &lt;i&gt;me&lt;/i&gt; will lead some to think about what it means to them (though, perhaps it won&#039;t).  

Even though others will examine the situation and come to a different conclusion than I will, it does not mean that this exercise has been a waste.

Thanks again for the comments, everyone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As I wrote, I don&#8217;t think this incident should be the defining moment of Mr. Obama&#8217;s presidency.  I think it should be a concern, and I think he&#8217;s begun an unfortunate pattern of deference to monarchs.</p>
<p>My motivation for writing this post was to delve into my own political philosophy.  I find that it is often these issues that lie at the margin of political life, and are of marginal importance, that can really help one define one&#8217;s political philosophy.  This issue may not do that for others, but it does for me.</p>
<p>I love liberal democracy (and I&#8217;m not claiming others don&#8217;t).  I feel that liberty, responsibility and political sovereignty are some of the greatest gifts that we in the west have received.  I think freedom and liberty must be vigorously defended, and routinely deferred to.  The point of freedom is not merely to lead to a good result, but to give us the opportunity to reach the best result, even if we will, at times, fail.</p>
<p>I believe the leader of the free world should have a similar mindset.  I believe that western democracy, often through its leaders, should demonstrate pride and strength in democracy.  I think this excessive bowing transgresses this imperative for liberty &#8211; though I don&#8217;t think Mr. Obama&#8217;s bow to the emperor has caused any great harm to liberty.</p>
<p>This issue may be somewhat meaningless.  No doubt, it should be out of the news pretty quickly.  But, if only for me, the underlying issues and concepts strike at my political philosophy.  Perhaps, my expounding on what the matter means to <i>me</i> will lead some to think about what it means to them (though, perhaps it won&#8217;t).  </p>
<p>Even though others will examine the situation and come to a different conclusion than I will, it does not mean that this exercise has been a waste.</p>
<p>Thanks again for the comments, everyone.</p>
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		<title>By: RD</title>
		<link>http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2009/11/17/barack-obamas-latest-kowtow-an-affront-to-liberty/comment-page-1/#comment-213914</link>
		<dc:creator>RD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 20:49:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thepolitic.com/?p=6817#comment-213914</guid>
		<description>Either you are the leader of the greatest democracy on earth or you are not.  It does not matter how low you bow or whether you curtsy.

This is just protocol and etiquette.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Either you are the leader of the greatest democracy on earth or you are not.  It does not matter how low you bow or whether you curtsy.</p>
<p>This is just protocol and etiquette.</p>
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		<title>By: balbulican</title>
		<link>http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2009/11/17/barack-obamas-latest-kowtow-an-affront-to-liberty/comment-page-1/#comment-213913</link>
		<dc:creator>balbulican</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 19:07:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thepolitic.com/?p=6817#comment-213913</guid>
		<description>Shrug. Some do, no doubt. I was raised to show respect for leaders.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shrug. Some do, no doubt. I was raised to show respect for leaders.</p>
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		<title>By: Philanthropist</title>
		<link>http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2009/11/17/barack-obamas-latest-kowtow-an-affront-to-liberty/comment-page-1/#comment-213911</link>
		<dc:creator>Philanthropist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 19:03:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thepolitic.com/?p=6817#comment-213911</guid>
		<description>Left wing, social activist types have no problem with bowing to Royalty. Noted.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Left wing, social activist types have no problem with bowing to Royalty. Noted.</p>
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		<title>By: balbulican</title>
		<link>http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2009/11/17/barack-obamas-latest-kowtow-an-affront-to-liberty/comment-page-1/#comment-213910</link>
		<dc:creator>balbulican</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 17:53:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thepolitic.com/?p=6817#comment-213910</guid>
		<description>Yup. And what you see when you view Obama bowing is clearly your personal perception of his intent, based on your contempt for Obama. No problem. But you see, I am not contemptuous of Obama (although I&#039;m not too impressed with his presidency to date), and I don&#039;t see that at all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yup. And what you see when you view Obama bowing is clearly your personal perception of his intent, based on your contempt for Obama. No problem. But you see, I am not contemptuous of Obama (although I&#8217;m not too impressed with his presidency to date), and I don&#8217;t see that at all.</p>
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		<title>By: Greg Farries</title>
		<link>http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2009/11/17/barack-obamas-latest-kowtow-an-affront-to-liberty/comment-page-1/#comment-213909</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Farries</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 17:30:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thepolitic.com/?p=6817#comment-213909</guid>
		<description>There is respect and then there is deference - there is clearly a difference.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is respect and then there is deference &#8211; there is clearly a difference.</p>
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		<title>By: balbulican</title>
		<link>http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2009/11/17/barack-obamas-latest-kowtow-an-affront-to-liberty/comment-page-1/#comment-213908</link>
		<dc:creator>balbulican</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 17:22:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thepolitic.com/?p=6817#comment-213908</guid>
		<description>Shrug. I&#039;m an atheist. When I go to church for a wedding or funeral, I stand sit when they do. It&#039;s politeness.

I don&#039;t believe in aristocracy of any sort. But when I met the Queen (with several zillion other people), I listened to the briefing, and followed the protocol. It&#039;s politeness. 

I remove my hat when American friends sing their national anthem at a public event. I refrain from speaking while others pray. It&#039;s politeness. 

I find it odd that conservatives, who once upon a time were defined by their respect for tradition, and for (at least according to them) civility, are taking such extraordinary umbrage at a simple act of politeness.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shrug. I&#8217;m an atheist. When I go to church for a wedding or funeral, I stand sit when they do. It&#8217;s politeness.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t believe in aristocracy of any sort. But when I met the Queen (with several zillion other people), I listened to the briefing, and followed the protocol. It&#8217;s politeness. </p>
<p>I remove my hat when American friends sing their national anthem at a public event. I refrain from speaking while others pray. It&#8217;s politeness. </p>
<p>I find it odd that conservatives, who once upon a time were defined by their respect for tradition, and for (at least according to them) civility, are taking such extraordinary umbrage at a simple act of politeness.</p>
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		<title>By: Greg Farries</title>
		<link>http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2009/11/17/barack-obamas-latest-kowtow-an-affront-to-liberty/comment-page-1/#comment-213906</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Farries</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 16:25:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thepolitic.com/?p=6817#comment-213906</guid>
		<description>Meh, I find the symbolic gesture pathetic, because I would never bow to anyone - whether it was a cultural tradition or not.  Whether previous presidents bowed isn&#039;t the issue - I would find their deference equally pathetic and unbecoming of the office of the presidency.

But it fits Obama&#039;s presidency to a tee - Obama&#039;s is about the show, and this &quot;symbolic&quot; gesture fits with Obama&#039;s recent attempts to apologize and kowtow to anyone and everyone in the world.  Whether he&#039;s shaking hands with dictators or bowing to royalty, he&#039;s clearly trying to undermine American superiority in exchange for the acceptance of subordinate America.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Meh, I find the symbolic gesture pathetic, because I would never bow to anyone &#8211; whether it was a cultural tradition or not.  Whether previous presidents bowed isn&#8217;t the issue &#8211; I would find their deference equally pathetic and unbecoming of the office of the presidency.</p>
<p>But it fits Obama&#8217;s presidency to a tee &#8211; Obama&#8217;s is about the show, and this &#8220;symbolic&#8221; gesture fits with Obama&#8217;s recent attempts to apologize and kowtow to anyone and everyone in the world.  Whether he&#8217;s shaking hands with dictators or bowing to royalty, he&#8217;s clearly trying to undermine American superiority in exchange for the acceptance of subordinate America.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan McLeod</title>
		<link>http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2009/11/17/barack-obamas-latest-kowtow-an-affront-to-liberty/comment-page-1/#comment-213903</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan McLeod</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 14:32:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thepolitic.com/?p=6817#comment-213903</guid>
		<description>@balbulican
Thanks for continuing the conversation.  I thought I&#039;d just present here what I wrote over at your blog:
&lt;blockquote&gt;Nonetheless, I think Mr. Obama could show respect without demonstrating disrespect to the office of the presidency. I’m fine with monarchies as a benign symbol of tradition and history (though I’m on record as arguing that Canada should ditch the monarchy), but such status is a privilege bestowed on them by free people. The leader of a free country should behave accordingly.

Still, I don’t want this to be too much of a distraction. As you imply, there are far more important issues. I felt this was something to make note of, but now I’d prefer to move on. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

And for those interested, you can check out balbulican&#039;s post &lt;a&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;, and you probably should.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@balbulican<br />
Thanks for continuing the conversation.  I thought I&#8217;d just present here what I wrote over at your blog:</p>
<blockquote><p>Nonetheless, I think Mr. Obama could show respect without demonstrating disrespect to the office of the presidency. I’m fine with monarchies as a benign symbol of tradition and history (though I’m on record as arguing that Canada should ditch the monarchy), but such status is a privilege bestowed on them by free people. The leader of a free country should behave accordingly.</p>
<p>Still, I don’t want this to be too much of a distraction. As you imply, there are far more important issues. I felt this was something to make note of, but now I’d prefer to move on. </p></blockquote>
<p>And for those interested, you can check out balbulican&#8217;s post <a>here</a>, and you probably should.</p>
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		<title>By: balbulican</title>
		<link>http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2009/11/17/barack-obamas-latest-kowtow-an-affront-to-liberty/comment-page-1/#comment-213902</link>
		<dc:creator>balbulican</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 14:24:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thepolitic.com/?p=6817#comment-213902</guid>
		<description>I have to agree with Abattoir. Obama was simply showing what used to be called &quot;good manners&quot;. (Now THERE&#039;S an archaic concept for you.) He is not in the least diminished by a gesture of respect for his hosts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to agree with Abattoir. Obama was simply showing what used to be called &#8220;good manners&#8221;. (Now THERE&#8217;S an archaic concept for you.) He is not in the least diminished by a gesture of respect for his hosts.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan McLeod</title>
		<link>http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2009/11/17/barack-obamas-latest-kowtow-an-affront-to-liberty/comment-page-1/#comment-213901</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan McLeod</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 14:14:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thepolitic.com/?p=6817#comment-213901</guid>
		<description>@Abattoir
Fair enough.  I think, as we&#039;ve done before, we&#039;ll just have to agree to disagree.

Though, to be clear, I see an implication of subservience (to use your word); I am not arguing that he is subservient to Japan.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Abattoir<br />
Fair enough.  I think, as we&#8217;ve done before, we&#8217;ll just have to agree to disagree.</p>
<p>Though, to be clear, I see an implication of subservience (to use your word); I am not arguing that he is subservient to Japan.</p>
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		<title>By: Abattoir</title>
		<link>http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2009/11/17/barack-obamas-latest-kowtow-an-affront-to-liberty/comment-page-1/#comment-213900</link>
		<dc:creator>Abattoir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 14:05:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thepolitic.com/?p=6817#comment-213900</guid>
		<description>Where you see denigration and subservience, I see a simple traditional sign of respect for the position. A vestigial cultural tradition, nothing more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Where you see denigration and subservience, I see a simple traditional sign of respect for the position. A vestigial cultural tradition, nothing more.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan McLeod</title>
		<link>http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2009/11/17/barack-obamas-latest-kowtow-an-affront-to-liberty/comment-page-1/#comment-213899</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan McLeod</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 13:49:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thepolitic.com/?p=6817#comment-213899</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the comments, everyone.

@balbulican and @Justin
I don&#039;t know the history of all previous leaders when it comes to bowing (and I&#039;m not going to bother searching), but I will say, without getting too sidetracked, that all of balbulican&#039;s examples are embarrassments (assuming they&#039;re true, and balbulican is usually pretty good with his research).  And, as I alluded to in the post, just like Obama, I&#039;ll judge them by their records, not merely one or two embarrassments.

@Bec
&quot;Cringe moment&quot; seems like an apt description.  My post may have been a little too purple (sometimes it happens).  I stand by what I wrote, but your comment seems a little more measured.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the comments, everyone.</p>
<p>@balbulican and @Justin<br />
I don&#8217;t know the history of all previous leaders when it comes to bowing (and I&#8217;m not going to bother searching), but I will say, without getting too sidetracked, that all of balbulican&#8217;s examples are embarrassments (assuming they&#8217;re true, and balbulican is usually pretty good with his research).  And, as I alluded to in the post, just like Obama, I&#8217;ll judge them by their records, not merely one or two embarrassments.</p>
<p>@Bec<br />
&#8220;Cringe moment&#8221; seems like an apt description.  My post may have been a little too purple (sometimes it happens).  I stand by what I wrote, but your comment seems a little more measured.</p>
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		<title>By: balbulican</title>
		<link>http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2009/11/17/barack-obamas-latest-kowtow-an-affront-to-liberty/comment-page-1/#comment-213898</link>
		<dc:creator>balbulican</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 13:38:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thepolitic.com/?p=6817#comment-213898</guid>
		<description>Wow. You&#039;re not very good at Google, are you, Justin?  What search terms did you use? Would you like some help?

I guess that explains why you were unable to find any evidence, anywhere, to substantiate your claim that the IPCC &quot;...have to throw out every single last IPCC study because a mathematician found a major problem with their calculations that through them all ridiculously off.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow. You&#8217;re not very good at Google, are you, Justin?  What search terms did you use? Would you like some help?</p>
<p>I guess that explains why you were unable to find any evidence, anywhere, to substantiate your claim that the IPCC &#8220;&#8230;have to throw out every single last IPCC study because a mathematician found a major problem with their calculations that through them all ridiculously off.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Bec</title>
		<link>http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2009/11/17/barack-obamas-latest-kowtow-an-affront-to-liberty/comment-page-1/#comment-213897</link>
		<dc:creator>Bec</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 13:15:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thepolitic.com/?p=6817#comment-213897</guid>
		<description>It was a cringe moment and I was embarrassed for him and the American people.
His acknowledgement of the Empress was a perfectly appropriate gesture but the 90 degree bow and eyes obviously lowered for the Emperor, I would agree was degrading and implied subservience.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It was a cringe moment and I was embarrassed for him and the American people.<br />
His acknowledgement of the Empress was a perfectly appropriate gesture but the 90 degree bow and eyes obviously lowered for the Emperor, I would agree was degrading and implied subservience.</p>
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		<title>By: Justin Hoffer</title>
		<link>http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2009/11/17/barack-obamas-latest-kowtow-an-affront-to-liberty/comment-page-1/#comment-213896</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin Hoffer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 13:08:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thepolitic.com/?p=6817#comment-213896</guid>
		<description>Please provide proof that Ronald Reagan bowed to Queen Elizabeth. A Google turned up nothing.

Please provide proof that George Bush bowed to the Saudi King. And don&#039;t show me the video of him lowering himself in order to have a medal put around his neck, because that isn&#039;t bowing. That&#039;s what everyone does when someone goes to put a medal on your neck.

Please provide proof that Nixon bowed to the emperor of Japan. Again, a Google turned up nothing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Please provide proof that Ronald Reagan bowed to Queen Elizabeth. A Google turned up nothing.</p>
<p>Please provide proof that George Bush bowed to the Saudi King. And don&#8217;t show me the video of him lowering himself in order to have a medal put around his neck, because that isn&#8217;t bowing. That&#8217;s what everyone does when someone goes to put a medal on your neck.</p>
<p>Please provide proof that Nixon bowed to the emperor of Japan. Again, a Google turned up nothing.</p>
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		<title>By: balbulican</title>
		<link>http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2009/11/17/barack-obamas-latest-kowtow-an-affront-to-liberty/comment-page-1/#comment-213895</link>
		<dc:creator>balbulican</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 12:43:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thepolitic.com/?p=6817#comment-213895</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s just silly. There&#039;s plenty to criticize in Obama&#039;s actual politics - please don&#039;t demean your blog by this childish sniping about a non-issue.

The power and prestige of the USA is in no way diminished by a President who respects protocol. Ronald Reagan bowed to Queen Elizabeth;  George Bush bowed to the Saudi King;  Richard Nixon bowed to the emperor of Japan. 

Oh, and Reagan used a teleprompter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s just silly. There&#8217;s plenty to criticize in Obama&#8217;s actual politics &#8211; please don&#8217;t demean your blog by this childish sniping about a non-issue.</p>
<p>The power and prestige of the USA is in no way diminished by a President who respects protocol. Ronald Reagan bowed to Queen Elizabeth;  George Bush bowed to the Saudi King;  Richard Nixon bowed to the emperor of Japan. </p>
<p>Oh, and Reagan used a teleprompter.</p>
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