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	<title>Comments on: Are Liberals suffering from a millstone named Quebec?</title>
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	<description>Conservative group weblog that publishes daily commentary on political events and topics affecting Canada, the United States and the world.</description>
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		<title>By: Spam_all_day</title>
		<link>http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2009/10/28/are-liberals-suffering-from-a-millstone-named-quebec/comment-page-1/#comment-214036</link>
		<dc:creator>Spam_all_day</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Nov 2009 21:25:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thepolitic.com/?p=6626#comment-214036</guid>
		<description>Spam sPAM Spam sPAM</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Spam sPAM Spam sPAM</p>
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		<title>By: Canada Guy</title>
		<link>http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2009/10/28/are-liberals-suffering-from-a-millstone-named-quebec/comment-page-1/#comment-213802</link>
		<dc:creator>Canada Guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Oct 2009 17:13:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thepolitic.com/?p=6626#comment-213802</guid>
		<description>14 years ago today, Québec almost seceded from Canada.

&lt;a href=&quot;http://dailynostalgia.blogspot.com/2009/10/quebec-almost-secedes.html&quot;&gt;http://dailynostalgia.blogspot.com/2009/10/quebec-almost-secedes.html&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>14 years ago today, Québec almost seceded from Canada.</p>
<p><a href="http://dailynostalgia.blogspot.com/2009/10/quebec-almost-secedes.html">http://dailynostalgia.blogspot.....cedes.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: brad maynard</title>
		<link>http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2009/10/28/are-liberals-suffering-from-a-millstone-named-quebec/comment-page-1/#comment-213780</link>
		<dc:creator>brad maynard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 03:32:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thepolitic.com/?p=6626#comment-213780</guid>
		<description>@ wilson

your point of the welfare recipients getting less is precisely why the practice of equalization must end. they are so dependant they have no idea what it is like to live within their taxable means.

of course dalton mc-dud would probably just piss away the money he gets to keep anyway so its not like ontario would be further ahead.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ wilson</p>
<p>your point of the welfare recipients getting less is precisely why the practice of equalization must end. they are so dependant they have no idea what it is like to live within their taxable means.</p>
<p>of course dalton mc-dud would probably just piss away the money he gets to keep anyway so its not like ontario would be further ahead.</p>
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		<title>By: wilson</title>
		<link>http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2009/10/28/are-liberals-suffering-from-a-millstone-named-quebec/comment-page-1/#comment-213777</link>
		<dc:creator>wilson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 03:01:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thepolitic.com/?p=6626#comment-213777</guid>
		<description>Well then how are the takers going to like their equalization payments reduced, as per the current formula?

Alberta and Ontario are not flying high anymore, so less is equalization is going to be paid out.
Ontario is now a have-not and Alberta is a haven&#039;t much left.....

Let the howling begin!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well then how are the takers going to like their equalization payments reduced, as per the current formula?</p>
<p>Alberta and Ontario are not flying high anymore, so less is equalization is going to be paid out.<br />
Ontario is now a have-not and Alberta is a haven&#8217;t much left&#8230;..</p>
<p>Let the howling begin!</p>
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		<title>By: brad maynard</title>
		<link>http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2009/10/28/are-liberals-suffering-from-a-millstone-named-quebec/comment-page-1/#comment-213775</link>
		<dc:creator>brad maynard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 02:30:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thepolitic.com/?p=6626#comment-213775</guid>
		<description>the way i see it, quebec has acted quite legitimately 

PLEASE DONT LYNCH ME READ ON!!!!!!!!!!!!

since the inception of inter-provincial welfare, they have taken advantage of that in spades, why not if you are a politician trying to get elected and you find out that you can pay for your outrageous promises on the backs of others. under the 1867 constitution act, the federalie&#039;s could not interfere with anything deemed to be provincial jurisdiction. nothing new there, sections 90 and 91 of that act.

where quebec has excelled at everyone elses expense is that they have argued successfully for that very same autonomous power while getting us to pay for it, such as daycare and canada health act exemptions and other myriad special dispensations. 

i completely agree with the exemptions that quebec has been able to achieve since in my view they are completely constitutional. to complete my satisfaction however would be the ending of provincial welfare transfers and a return to fiscal sanity by those provinces that have become as much an abuser of the system as those individuals who live on the dole for generations.

the gov that introduces that change will probably never form gov with seats from quebec to the east coast, but it is an absolute necessary step to restoring provincial autonomy in matters that affect citizens on a more local level rather than a one size fits all federal approach to everything.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>the way i see it, quebec has acted quite legitimately </p>
<p>PLEASE DONT LYNCH ME READ ON!!!!!!!!!!!!</p>
<p>since the inception of inter-provincial welfare, they have taken advantage of that in spades, why not if you are a politician trying to get elected and you find out that you can pay for your outrageous promises on the backs of others. under the 1867 constitution act, the federalie&#8217;s could not interfere with anything deemed to be provincial jurisdiction. nothing new there, sections 90 and 91 of that act.</p>
<p>where quebec has excelled at everyone elses expense is that they have argued successfully for that very same autonomous power while getting us to pay for it, such as daycare and canada health act exemptions and other myriad special dispensations. </p>
<p>i completely agree with the exemptions that quebec has been able to achieve since in my view they are completely constitutional. to complete my satisfaction however would be the ending of provincial welfare transfers and a return to fiscal sanity by those provinces that have become as much an abuser of the system as those individuals who live on the dole for generations.</p>
<p>the gov that introduces that change will probably never form gov with seats from quebec to the east coast, but it is an absolute necessary step to restoring provincial autonomy in matters that affect citizens on a more local level rather than a one size fits all federal approach to everything.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan McLeod</title>
		<link>http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2009/10/28/are-liberals-suffering-from-a-millstone-named-quebec/comment-page-1/#comment-213771</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan McLeod</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 01:33:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thepolitic.com/?p=6626#comment-213771</guid>
		<description>@Sean
Could you not write the same post about the Conservatives and The West?

(Yeah, I know, I&#039;m a troublemaker.)

@Gary
As someone born and raised in Ottawa, Quebec provided me with a means to legally buy alcohol when I was 18.

Oh, and let&#039;s not forget Rue St. Catherine...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Sean<br />
Could you not write the same post about the Conservatives and The West?</p>
<p>(Yeah, I know, I&#8217;m a troublemaker.)</p>
<p>@Gary<br />
As someone born and raised in Ottawa, Quebec provided me with a means to legally buy alcohol when I was 18.</p>
<p>Oh, and let&#8217;s not forget Rue St. Catherine&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: wilson</title>
		<link>http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2009/10/28/are-liberals-suffering-from-a-millstone-named-quebec/comment-page-1/#comment-213765</link>
		<dc:creator>wilson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 00:04:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thepolitic.com/?p=6626#comment-213765</guid>
		<description>p.s.  the Coalition of Losers was a turning point, 
very little journalist ink has gone into discussing the long term effects on the LPC and Quebec&#039;s place in Canada.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>p.s.  the Coalition of Losers was a turning point,<br />
very little journalist ink has gone into discussing the long term effects on the LPC and Quebec&#8217;s place in Canada.</p>
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		<title>By: wilson</title>
		<link>http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2009/10/28/are-liberals-suffering-from-a-millstone-named-quebec/comment-page-1/#comment-213764</link>
		<dc:creator>wilson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 23:55:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thepolitic.com/?p=6626#comment-213764</guid>
		<description>Dec 2008 Liberals signed an agreement with the separatists,
separatists wanted IN,
 BLOC wanted to be part of &#039;making Canadian Parliament work;....
that event made a joke out of Quebec wanting to separate.

We just don&#039;t believe it anymore.

There is no threat of Quebec separating,
the seppies pensions would be gone.....!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dec 2008 Liberals signed an agreement with the separatists,<br />
separatists wanted IN,<br />
 BLOC wanted to be part of &#8216;making Canadian Parliament work;&#8230;.<br />
that event made a joke out of Quebec wanting to separate.</p>
<p>We just don&#8217;t believe it anymore.</p>
<p>There is no threat of Quebec separating,<br />
the seppies pensions would be gone&#8230;..!</p>
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		<title>By: Gary</title>
		<link>http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2009/10/28/are-liberals-suffering-from-a-millstone-named-quebec/comment-page-1/#comment-213760</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 22:41:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thepolitic.com/?p=6626#comment-213760</guid>
		<description>Being a Westerner, I am tired of teh privileged position and whinging demands of Quebec. If a majority with Quebec input means that Quebecois choose to separate from Canada than that&#039;s just fine with me. I would not miss then for a millisecond. I can think of nothing positive that Quebec has contributed to Canada in a very long time. They have nothing we need, and produce nothing we couldn&#039;t purchase else more cheaply. If Quebec wants to leave Canada, I would wish them bon voyage as soon as possible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Being a Westerner, I am tired of teh privileged position and whinging demands of Quebec. If a majority with Quebec input means that Quebecois choose to separate from Canada than that&#8217;s just fine with me. I would not miss then for a millisecond. I can think of nothing positive that Quebec has contributed to Canada in a very long time. They have nothing we need, and produce nothing we couldn&#8217;t purchase else more cheaply. If Quebec wants to leave Canada, I would wish them bon voyage as soon as possible.</p>
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		<title>By: Fitter</title>
		<link>http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2009/10/28/are-liberals-suffering-from-a-millstone-named-quebec/comment-page-1/#comment-213759</link>
		<dc:creator>Fitter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 21:22:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thepolitic.com/?p=6626#comment-213759</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m form Eastern Ontario, and I agree with Joe 100%. Trudeau destroyed my Canada.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m form Eastern Ontario, and I agree with Joe 100%. Trudeau destroyed my Canada.</p>
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		<title>By: Sean Calder</title>
		<link>http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2009/10/28/are-liberals-suffering-from-a-millstone-named-quebec/comment-page-1/#comment-213757</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean Calder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 20:56:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thepolitic.com/?p=6626#comment-213757</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re certainly not alone in that feeling Joe. Many Westerners agree that they don&#039;t feel represented in what many (including a multitude of non-Westerners) consider a very flawed set of documents. It&#039;s part of the reason why I believe Canada is facing so many internally confusing issues and why we had a fiscal imbalance in the first place. Also, I think that because this was never handled properly in the first place, it is going to take so much longer to fix.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re certainly not alone in that feeling Joe. Many Westerners agree that they don&#8217;t feel represented in what many (including a multitude of non-Westerners) consider a very flawed set of documents. It&#8217;s part of the reason why I believe Canada is facing so many internally confusing issues and why we had a fiscal imbalance in the first place. Also, I think that because this was never handled properly in the first place, it is going to take so much longer to fix.</p>
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		<title>By: Sean Calder</title>
		<link>http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2009/10/28/are-liberals-suffering-from-a-millstone-named-quebec/comment-page-1/#comment-213756</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean Calder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 20:52:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thepolitic.com/?p=6626#comment-213756</guid>
		<description>But Quebec as a Province in Confederation never signed on. People claim that it wasn&#039;t necessary, but this is exactly what allows the Bloc to be able to pull their stunts without being accused of treason. Now, we hear rumblings of Western separation, but that would in fact be treasonous as they (the province) &lt;em&gt;did&lt;/em&gt; formally sign onto confederation and the repatriated constitution.

Where do you think the whole issue came from, and why do you think the Charlottetown and Meech Lake Accords took place? It&#039;s not because of optics.

The main thrust of the issue is &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.rocler.qc.ca/turp/eng/Intellectuals/Intel.htm&quot;&gt;this&lt;/a&gt;: 
&lt;blockquote&gt;...by choosing to repatriate the Constitution without the consent of Quebec and its National Assembly, Canada has in a sense helped to resolve this dilemma. Even if it were in principle possible to use the political weight of the Constitution to oppose the political weight of Quebec&#039;s moral arguments, the balance leans in the latter&#039;s favour. The rason is that the Constitution is, in fact, illegitimate because it was imposed without the consent of the people of Quebec or Quebec&#039;s National Assembly. Therefore, the events of 1982 justify a unilateral declaration of independence, if it should become necessary. To claim that Quebec cannot attain sovereignty without Canada&#039;s consent means to forget that Canada imposed its new constitutional order without Quebec&#039;s consent. However, since it did do so, Canada must now be prepared to accept the consequences and accept the expres-sion of the will of the Quebec people.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Therein lies the problem. The arguments for and against this have been going on ever since.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But Quebec as a Province in Confederation never signed on. People claim that it wasn&#8217;t necessary, but this is exactly what allows the Bloc to be able to pull their stunts without being accused of treason. Now, we hear rumblings of Western separation, but that would in fact be treasonous as they (the province) <em>did</em> formally sign onto confederation and the repatriated constitution.</p>
<p>Where do you think the whole issue came from, and why do you think the Charlottetown and Meech Lake Accords took place? It&#8217;s not because of optics.</p>
<p>The main thrust of the issue is <a href="http://www.rocler.qc.ca/turp/eng/Intellectuals/Intel.htm">this</a>: </p>
<blockquote><p>&#8230;by choosing to repatriate the Constitution without the consent of Quebec and its National Assembly, Canada has in a sense helped to resolve this dilemma. Even if it were in principle possible to use the political weight of the Constitution to oppose the political weight of Quebec&#8217;s moral arguments, the balance leans in the latter&#8217;s favour. The rason is that the Constitution is, in fact, illegitimate because it was imposed without the consent of the people of Quebec or Quebec&#8217;s National Assembly. Therefore, the events of 1982 justify a unilateral declaration of independence, if it should become necessary. To claim that Quebec cannot attain sovereignty without Canada&#8217;s consent means to forget that Canada imposed its new constitutional order without Quebec&#8217;s consent. However, since it did do so, Canada must now be prepared to accept the consequences and accept the expres-sion of the will of the Quebec people.</p></blockquote>
<p>Therein lies the problem. The arguments for and against this have been going on ever since.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe</title>
		<link>http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2009/10/28/are-liberals-suffering-from-a-millstone-named-quebec/comment-page-1/#comment-213755</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 20:28:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thepolitic.com/?p=6626#comment-213755</guid>
		<description>Slightly off topic but as a Westerner I never felt represented in Trudeau&#039;s &quot;Constitution&quot;.  

To my mind the best that could happen is they would dig up Trudeau place every copy of his Constitution on his rotting chest and re-bury the whole stinking thing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Slightly off topic but as a Westerner I never felt represented in Trudeau&#8217;s &#8220;Constitution&#8221;.  </p>
<p>To my mind the best that could happen is they would dig up Trudeau place every copy of his Constitution on his rotting chest and re-bury the whole stinking thing.</p>
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		<title>By: Nicola Timmerman</title>
		<link>http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2009/10/28/are-liberals-suffering-from-a-millstone-named-quebec/comment-page-1/#comment-213753</link>
		<dc:creator>Nicola Timmerman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 19:37:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thepolitic.com/?p=6626#comment-213753</guid>
		<description>I agree with most of what you said, except for the part about Quebec signing the constitution.  This is a myth!  Trudeau was in power when the constitution was repatriated and the vast majority of Quebec M.P.&#039;s were from the Liberal Party.  So how can they say Quebec was not represented?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with most of what you said, except for the part about Quebec signing the constitution.  This is a myth!  Trudeau was in power when the constitution was repatriated and the vast majority of Quebec M.P.&#8217;s were from the Liberal Party.  So how can they say Quebec was not represented?</p>
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