Are Liberals suffering from a millstone named Quebec?
October 28, 2009 · By Sean Calder
It’s debatable I think. The main comparison I’d make is that Liberal fortune is so dependent upon the good graces of Quebec and the Conservatives are not. Liberals can’t obtain a majority government without Quebec and that’s mostly because they don’t have The West, whereas the Conservatives can technically obtain a majority without Quebec, even if that’s unlikely by virtue that they DO have The West by and large.
On Steve Janke’s blog post about Michael Ignatieff firing his Chief of Staff, Soccermom made a comment that got me to thinking about this:
Any Quebecker who becomes Liberal leader in the next couple of years will get laughed out of the West.
Now, while most Liberal leaders recognize the importance of wooing Western votes (even if unsuccessfully), doing so earns them the scorn of too many Quebeckers for them to put a serious effort into it lest they lose their support. This is mostly because many (not all) Quebeckers view themselves above and apart from Canada, especially those western places.
Now don’t get me wrong. I love Quebec, it’s culture and it’s people, I just wish that they’d come down from their cross sometime and accept that they are fully a part of Canada and not above or separate from it.
So Liberal leaders become hamstrung from “including the west” too vigorously and end up simply speaking hollow words to Westerners (which comes across as patronizing, and rightfully so because it is) which further wides the rift between the East and West. As a result, in order to achieve their majority governments, Liberals dig themselves deeper into the graces of Quebec by lavishing praise, concessions and money on them. Again, this practice is abhorrent to other Canadians, and especially to the Westerners who don’t hate Quebec but just want the special treatment to end and achieve equality.
Unfortunately, until Quebec officially signs onto the Constitution, this divide will continue to exist and fluctuate. And why should they? They get so much more with really no consequences. Again, this isn’t personal, it’s politics.
Now, the only way I see this changing is if the Conservatives are able to secure a Majority Government without having to be obliged to Quebec for it. Technically, it’s possible; it’s just REALLY unlikely.
If Quebec suddenly becomes not so important to the ever important majority it could spur one of two things, and this is the risk that politicians aren’t willing to take:
1) Quebec becomes aware that it needs Canada
If Conservatives were able to achieve that majority without needing Quebec, it may send the message that the time of blackmail is over for Quebec, at least for the next 4 years. It would no longer have the numerical leverage it has used to hold the rest of the country hostage. This might jolt them into conceding that unless they join the Confederation as an equal partner, they could be handed only what the rest of the country deigns to give them.
2) Quebec fears being ostracized and separates
This is the greatest fear of politicians. We know that practically, Quebec as a sovereign nation would ultimately fail without massive provisions and support by Canada or the United States. The problem is that Quebec would still have to give up part of their absolute sovereignty in order to do that. They want all the benefits without any of the consequences. Our currency, our Passports, our National Defense Organizations, our inter-provincial trade agreements etc. etc. But if they feel that becoming subject to Canada is a worse fate than trying to go it on their own, Separatism could well rise up in sufficient numbers to make it happen.
Legally.
And so, in order to avoid this disastrous event for Liberal fortunes, they continue to bribe Quebec into staying like some fair-weather spouse whom they can’t bear to leave, but can’t afford to keep indefinitely.
I agree with most of what you said, except for the part about Quebec signing the constitution. This is a myth! Trudeau was in power when the constitution was repatriated and the vast majority of Quebec M.P.’s were from the Liberal Party. So how can they say Quebec was not represented?
Slightly off topic but as a Westerner I never felt represented in Trudeau’s “Constitution”.
To my mind the best that could happen is they would dig up Trudeau place every copy of his Constitution on his rotting chest and re-bury the whole stinking thing.
But Quebec as a Province in Confederation never signed on. People claim that it wasn’t necessary, but this is exactly what allows the Bloc to be able to pull their stunts without being accused of treason. Now, we hear rumblings of Western separation, but that would in fact be treasonous as they (the province) did formally sign onto confederation and the repatriated constitution.
Where do you think the whole issue came from, and why do you think the Charlottetown and Meech Lake Accords took place? It’s not because of optics.
The main thrust of the issue is this:
Therein lies the problem. The arguments for and against this have been going on ever since.
You’re certainly not alone in that feeling Joe. Many Westerners agree that they don’t feel represented in what many (including a multitude of non-Westerners) consider a very flawed set of documents. It’s part of the reason why I believe Canada is facing so many internally confusing issues and why we had a fiscal imbalance in the first place. Also, I think that because this was never handled properly in the first place, it is going to take so much longer to fix.
I’m form Eastern Ontario, and I agree with Joe 100%. Trudeau destroyed my Canada.
Being a Westerner, I am tired of teh privileged position and whinging demands of Quebec. If a majority with Quebec input means that Quebecois choose to separate from Canada than that’s just fine with me. I would not miss then for a millisecond. I can think of nothing positive that Quebec has contributed to Canada in a very long time. They have nothing we need, and produce nothing we couldn’t purchase else more cheaply. If Quebec wants to leave Canada, I would wish them bon voyage as soon as possible.
Dec 2008 Liberals signed an agreement with the separatists,
separatists wanted IN,
BLOC wanted to be part of ‘making Canadian Parliament work;….
that event made a joke out of Quebec wanting to separate.
We just don’t believe it anymore.
There is no threat of Quebec separating,
the seppies pensions would be gone…..!
p.s. the Coalition of Losers was a turning point,
very little journalist ink has gone into discussing the long term effects on the LPC and Quebec’s place in Canada.
@Sean
Could you not write the same post about the Conservatives and The West?
(Yeah, I know, I’m a troublemaker.)
@Gary
As someone born and raised in Ottawa, Quebec provided me with a means to legally buy alcohol when I was 18.
Oh, and let’s not forget Rue St. Catherine…
the way i see it, quebec has acted quite legitimately
PLEASE DONT LYNCH ME READ ON!!!!!!!!!!!!
since the inception of inter-provincial welfare, they have taken advantage of that in spades, why not if you are a politician trying to get elected and you find out that you can pay for your outrageous promises on the backs of others. under the 1867 constitution act, the federalie’s could not interfere with anything deemed to be provincial jurisdiction. nothing new there, sections 90 and 91 of that act.
where quebec has excelled at everyone elses expense is that they have argued successfully for that very same autonomous power while getting us to pay for it, such as daycare and canada health act exemptions and other myriad special dispensations.
i completely agree with the exemptions that quebec has been able to achieve since in my view they are completely constitutional. to complete my satisfaction however would be the ending of provincial welfare transfers and a return to fiscal sanity by those provinces that have become as much an abuser of the system as those individuals who live on the dole for generations.
the gov that introduces that change will probably never form gov with seats from quebec to the east coast, but it is an absolute necessary step to restoring provincial autonomy in matters that affect citizens on a more local level rather than a one size fits all federal approach to everything.
Well then how are the takers going to like their equalization payments reduced, as per the current formula?
Alberta and Ontario are not flying high anymore, so less is equalization is going to be paid out.
Ontario is now a have-not and Alberta is a haven’t much left…..
Let the howling begin!
@ wilson
your point of the welfare recipients getting less is precisely why the practice of equalization must end. they are so dependant they have no idea what it is like to live within their taxable means.
of course dalton mc-dud would probably just piss away the money he gets to keep anyway so its not like ontario would be further ahead.
14 years ago today, Québec almost seceded from Canada.
http://dailynostalgia.blogspot.....cedes.html
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