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	<title>Comments on: Jack Layton: A Defense</title>
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	<description>Conservative group weblog that publishes daily commentary on political events and topics affecting Canada, the United States and the world.</description>
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		<title>By: Jonathan McLeod</title>
		<link>http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2009/09/15/jack-layton-a-defense/comment-page-1/#comment-213303</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan McLeod</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Sep 2009 15:12:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thepolitic.com/?p=6283#comment-213303</guid>
		<description>Bec, I think you&#039;re right about Ignatieff.  I wonder how long until the knives come out.

Kelly, whatever he says, I can&#039;t believe that Harper won&#039;t adjust his policies just a little.  He has a minority and the other three parties are left wing.  There will have to be tweaks to the Conservative&#039;s ideal policies in order to make them politically viable.  I think they&#039;ll be subtle, but they&#039;ll be there.

You may be right that Layton won&#039;t gain much from this, or at least not as much as Harper will, but if Parliament continues for another year or so, and does, generally, a good job, and if the NDP are seen as part of the good job, I think it&#039;ll give Layton a bit of a boost.  He may not capitalize on it, but come the next election, he&#039;d probably then be able to campaign from a stronger position than he will be if we have an election this fall.

Very good point, Sean.  I&#039;ll admit it, I wasn&#039;t thinking too much of the logistics of House votes, and how the order of voting could really put the NDP in a bind.

Jack and the NDP have a very good opportunity to make some political gains, but it won&#039;t be easy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bec, I think you&#8217;re right about Ignatieff.  I wonder how long until the knives come out.</p>
<p>Kelly, whatever he says, I can&#8217;t believe that Harper won&#8217;t adjust his policies just a little.  He has a minority and the other three parties are left wing.  There will have to be tweaks to the Conservative&#8217;s ideal policies in order to make them politically viable.  I think they&#8217;ll be subtle, but they&#8217;ll be there.</p>
<p>You may be right that Layton won&#8217;t gain much from this, or at least not as much as Harper will, but if Parliament continues for another year or so, and does, generally, a good job, and if the NDP are seen as part of the good job, I think it&#8217;ll give Layton a bit of a boost.  He may not capitalize on it, but come the next election, he&#8217;d probably then be able to campaign from a stronger position than he will be if we have an election this fall.</p>
<p>Very good point, Sean.  I&#8217;ll admit it, I wasn&#8217;t thinking too much of the logistics of House votes, and how the order of voting could really put the NDP in a bind.</p>
<p>Jack and the NDP have a very good opportunity to make some political gains, but it won&#8217;t be easy.</p>
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		<title>By: Sean Calder</title>
		<link>http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2009/09/15/jack-layton-a-defense/comment-page-1/#comment-213301</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean Calder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Sep 2009 14:51:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thepolitic.com/?p=6283#comment-213301</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Now, his party is freed from the proposition of either propping up the government or causing a fall election.  They can vote their collective conscience.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Jonathan, I have to disagree here, but only partially.

I disagree in that when push comes to shove, Jack will have to watch the BLOC very, very closely. In any vote on Parliament Hill, the NDP are the last party to vote. If Jack is counting on the BLOC to support the government in a particular vote, and it suddenly doesn&#039;t turn out that way, it will be left to the NDP to do the supporting at the last moment, regardless of whatever rhetoric or position they&#039;ve taken leading up to the vote. Depending on what that was, it could go very badly for the NDP.

If, as you say, they choose to take the &quot;thoughtful party&quot; road, then they could pull it off for a little while, but honestly, not for very long.

As for the BLOC, well, Gilles Duceppe is no idiot. He knows that he won&#039;t get what he wants by soliciting the support of the NDP. He has to work UP the chain, not down it. Whether they like it or not, the NDP will never be able to give the BLOC what they want. It&#039;ll be up to the two main Federal Parties, and that&#039;s who he has to work with. The NDP are only good for filibuster when the BLOC wants to.

As I said earlier, I believe that the BLOC would like to see the NDP out of the picture, or at least completely marginalized into insignificance. This would make him the go-to guy in minorities. That gives him supreme leverage, and that&#039;s good for Quebec. Having to share that leverage with the NDP isn&#039;t always palatable.

Anyway, Jack Layton and the NDP had better keep an eye to their right in the House of Commons.

Just my opinion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Now, his party is freed from the proposition of either propping up the government or causing a fall election.  They can vote their collective conscience.</p></blockquote>
<p>Jonathan, I have to disagree here, but only partially.</p>
<p>I disagree in that when push comes to shove, Jack will have to watch the BLOC very, very closely. In any vote on Parliament Hill, the NDP are the last party to vote. If Jack is counting on the BLOC to support the government in a particular vote, and it suddenly doesn&#8217;t turn out that way, it will be left to the NDP to do the supporting at the last moment, regardless of whatever rhetoric or position they&#8217;ve taken leading up to the vote. Depending on what that was, it could go very badly for the NDP.</p>
<p>If, as you say, they choose to take the &#8220;thoughtful party&#8221; road, then they could pull it off for a little while, but honestly, not for very long.</p>
<p>As for the BLOC, well, Gilles Duceppe is no idiot. He knows that he won&#8217;t get what he wants by soliciting the support of the NDP. He has to work UP the chain, not down it. Whether they like it or not, the NDP will never be able to give the BLOC what they want. It&#8217;ll be up to the two main Federal Parties, and that&#8217;s who he has to work with. The NDP are only good for filibuster when the BLOC wants to.</p>
<p>As I said earlier, I believe that the BLOC would like to see the NDP out of the picture, or at least completely marginalized into insignificance. This would make him the go-to guy in minorities. That gives him supreme leverage, and that&#8217;s good for Quebec. Having to share that leverage with the NDP isn&#8217;t always palatable.</p>
<p>Anyway, Jack Layton and the NDP had better keep an eye to their right in the House of Commons.</p>
<p>Just my opinion.</p>
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		<title>By: old white guy</title>
		<link>http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2009/09/15/jack-layton-a-defense/comment-page-1/#comment-213298</link>
		<dc:creator>old white guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Sep 2009 12:48:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thepolitic.com/?p=6283#comment-213298</guid>
		<description>defending the indefensible?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>defending the indefensible?</p>
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		<title>By: Kelly</title>
		<link>http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2009/09/15/jack-layton-a-defense/comment-page-1/#comment-213297</link>
		<dc:creator>Kelly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Sep 2009 07:11:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thepolitic.com/?p=6283#comment-213297</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t really see Layton getting much out of this.

As Harper said during his interview on Power Play, he is not focused on adjusting his policies to appease other parties; only the Canadian people. As long as he accomplishes that, Parliament continues.

It may well be Canadians will give a nod to Layton for moving towards the centre, but it is far more likely Harper will get the credit, not him.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t really see Layton getting much out of this.</p>
<p>As Harper said during his interview on Power Play, he is not focused on adjusting his policies to appease other parties; only the Canadian people. As long as he accomplishes that, Parliament continues.</p>
<p>It may well be Canadians will give a nod to Layton for moving towards the centre, but it is far more likely Harper will get the credit, not him.</p>
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		<title>By: Bec</title>
		<link>http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2009/09/15/jack-layton-a-defense/comment-page-1/#comment-213296</link>
		<dc:creator>Bec</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Sep 2009 04:45:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thepolitic.com/?p=6283#comment-213296</guid>
		<description>Conservative majority under today&#039;s conditions. If the PM loses his normal moderate tone and starts acting like MIMI ( that would take an act of God because the man is insufferable)  then you know this could take on a whole new light. 
MI is every Canadian political parties greatest gift. An arrogant Liberal (no surprise there, got it).......with absolutely NO political savvy, instinct or credibility.
Dud,dud,dud! No fireworks, sorry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Conservative majority under today&#8217;s conditions. If the PM loses his normal moderate tone and starts acting like MIMI ( that would take an act of God because the man is insufferable)  then you know this could take on a whole new light.<br />
MI is every Canadian political parties greatest gift. An arrogant Liberal (no surprise there, got it)&#8230;&#8230;.with absolutely NO political savvy, instinct or credibility.<br />
Dud,dud,dud! No fireworks, sorry.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan McLeod</title>
		<link>http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2009/09/15/jack-layton-a-defense/comment-page-1/#comment-213294</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan McLeod</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Sep 2009 04:38:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thepolitic.com/?p=6283#comment-213294</guid>
		<description>Hi ack, thanks for trolling.  Just for the record, I haven&#039;t been a partisan Conservative since I met Jim Watson at the &#039;93 Progressive Conservative leadership convention.  Anyway, if you click &lt;a href=&quot;http://cannedgoodsandammunition.blogspot.com/2009/08/oh-thats-just-fantastic.html&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt; and &lt;a href=&quot;http://cannedgoodsandammunition.blogspot.com/2009/08/love-means-never-having-to-say-youre.html&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;, you can read me calling out Harper before any sort of &quot;coalition&quot;.

Hi Katherine, thanks for clicking through; I appreciate it, and I appreciate your input.  I wouldn&#039;t be as disappointed with a Conservative majority as you would be, but I&#039;m still not totally sold on Harper.  I liked him when he took the leadership, and I still think he has the potential to be a great leader and PM, but I haven&#039;t seen enough from him yet (and, granted, I&#039;m looking for different policy initiatives than you would be looking for).

I&#039;ve liked Ignatieff for a while - from back when he was writing op-eds in the National Post (I think it was The Post).  However, I think he&#039;s been unimpressive as an MP and as a leader of the liberals.  And, like you, I&#039;m none to pleased with his international carpetbagging.

Richard Albert has an interview with Mark Holland &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2009/09/12/mark-holland-the-new-generation-of-liberal-leadership/&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;, noting he&#039;s part of the next generation of liberal leadership.  I hope he&#039;s right, in that I hope there is a next generation of leadership.  I think between Ignatieff, Dion, Rae and Gerard Kennedy, the Liberals aren&#039;t presenting Canada with very much to get excited about.  Sadly, Duceppe is offering more leadership.

So if there is an election this fall (God forbid), here&#039;s to a Harper majority with a strong Layton opposition - with Mark Holland playing the role for the Liberals of Jean Charest c.1993!  :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi ack, thanks for trolling.  Just for the record, I haven&#8217;t been a partisan Conservative since I met Jim Watson at the &#8217;93 Progressive Conservative leadership convention.  Anyway, if you click <a href="http://cannedgoodsandammunition.blogspot.com/2009/08/oh-thats-just-fantastic.html">here</a> and <a href="http://cannedgoodsandammunition.blogspot.com/2009/08/love-means-never-having-to-say-youre.html">here</a>, you can read me calling out Harper before any sort of &#8220;coalition&#8221;.</p>
<p>Hi Katherine, thanks for clicking through; I appreciate it, and I appreciate your input.  I wouldn&#8217;t be as disappointed with a Conservative majority as you would be, but I&#8217;m still not totally sold on Harper.  I liked him when he took the leadership, and I still think he has the potential to be a great leader and PM, but I haven&#8217;t seen enough from him yet (and, granted, I&#8217;m looking for different policy initiatives than you would be looking for).</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve liked Ignatieff for a while &#8211; from back when he was writing op-eds in the National Post (I think it was The Post).  However, I think he&#8217;s been unimpressive as an MP and as a leader of the liberals.  And, like you, I&#8217;m none to pleased with his international carpetbagging.</p>
<p>Richard Albert has an interview with Mark Holland <a href="http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2009/09/12/mark-holland-the-new-generation-of-liberal-leadership/">here</a>, noting he&#8217;s part of the next generation of liberal leadership.  I hope he&#8217;s right, in that I hope there is a next generation of leadership.  I think between Ignatieff, Dion, Rae and Gerard Kennedy, the Liberals aren&#8217;t presenting Canada with very much to get excited about.  Sadly, Duceppe is offering more leadership.</p>
<p>So if there is an election this fall (God forbid), here&#8217;s to a Harper majority with a strong Layton opposition &#8211; with Mark Holland playing the role for the Liberals of Jean Charest c.1993!  :)</p>
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		<title>By: Katherine</title>
		<link>http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2009/09/15/jack-layton-a-defense/comment-page-1/#comment-213292</link>
		<dc:creator>Katherine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Sep 2009 04:09:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thepolitic.com/?p=6283#comment-213292</guid>
		<description>Hi; I found you over here via the League.  I&#039;m also skeptical about whether Jack will manage to get any political capital out of this, but I hope he does.  We don&#039;t need another election at this time.  It&#039;s good, in a way, to have Ignatieff putting the pressure on, though, because it compels Harper to behave the way a minority government ought to from the start - shift its policies to gain the support of other parties.

Being both a leftist and a patriot, I&#039;m in the odd position of preferring Harper to any party leader but Layton, giving that Ignatieff spent most of his adult life outside the country and considering other nations his home, and Duceppe wants to destroy Canada.

I&#039;m expecting an election, but not looking forward to it - it could end in either a Conservative majority or a Liberal government and I would be unhappy with either of those.  The current situation is tolerable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi; I found you over here via the League.  I&#8217;m also skeptical about whether Jack will manage to get any political capital out of this, but I hope he does.  We don&#8217;t need another election at this time.  It&#8217;s good, in a way, to have Ignatieff putting the pressure on, though, because it compels Harper to behave the way a minority government ought to from the start &#8211; shift its policies to gain the support of other parties.</p>
<p>Being both a leftist and a patriot, I&#8217;m in the odd position of preferring Harper to any party leader but Layton, giving that Ignatieff spent most of his adult life outside the country and considering other nations his home, and Duceppe wants to destroy Canada.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m expecting an election, but not looking forward to it &#8211; it could end in either a Conservative majority or a Liberal government and I would be unhappy with either of those.  The current situation is tolerable.</p>
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		<title>By: ack</title>
		<link>http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2009/09/15/jack-layton-a-defense/comment-page-1/#comment-213291</link>
		<dc:creator>ack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Sep 2009 03:51:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thepolitic.com/?p=6283#comment-213291</guid>
		<description>HA ha ha Jack Layton forms a coalition with Harper and suddenly he is no longer taliban Jack. What a bunch of loser partisans Conservatives are..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>HA ha ha Jack Layton forms a coalition with Harper and suddenly he is no longer taliban Jack. What a bunch of loser partisans Conservatives are..</p>
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