The Question Nobody is Asking About Electric Cars
June 3, 2009 · By Shane Edwards
Another Canadian Pride moment happened the other day, as Magna (yes, that Magna) Corp. announced that they had purchased Opel and planned to start manufacturing electric cars in Canada.
Yay, right?
News comes yesterday that no sooner had they purchased said “profitable enterprise” than they found themselves in Ottawa begging for cash. (Hat Tip to SDA.)
My question. Where is the electricity going to come from? Electricity is not a renewable resource. It is the product of resources. Renewable and non-renewable resources produce it.
Except, we already don’t have enough of it. BC buys electricity, despite producing massive amounts of hydroelectric power. The Greens have put a stop to any more “renewable” energy coming from new dam projects.
Nuclear power is out, because it’s got as good a reputation as DDT. (With about the equivalent basis in fact)
Wind power is irregular, and makes mincemeat out of birds. (More than the Tar Sands by some measures.)
Solar power is nowhere near efficient enough yet.
Oil and gas? Oh yeah, that’s what we’re trying NOT to use.
I am ready for someone to explain it to me, but I haven’t heard anyone try yet.
You’re absolutely correct – until we get cheap, RELIABLE electrical energy – and lots of it – electric cars will remain little more than toys for green indulgences.
Nuclear power is, in fact, a great way to generate electricity. The reason that nuclear has a bad reputation is that it’s been run by government oversight – in short, anti-nuclear activists have been calling the shots to develop the industry in Canada (and most of the world, with the exception of France), with predictable results. Ask why AECL can build nuclear power plants on time and under-budget, and then train staff to run them reliably in every country except in Canada?
Oh, and, nobody seems to want to answer the other little problem posed with electric cars – how to dispose of those not-so-green and definitely non-renewable batteries? If even 25% of cars were to switch to electrical -imagine having to cope with millions of batteries that will need disposal every single year.
I can just see the greenies apoplectic fits of self-righteous stupidity now.
It’s quite simple. The technology to produce electricity that doesn’t create ghg emissions exists. You’ve cited many of them in your post. So while we’re busy converting the automobiles to electric we’ll also be busy converting our electricity production to those clean sources which get more efficient and more reliable every day (in fact, they’ve already reached the point where they are providing nearly all of the new capacity that is required in Canada). In addition we’ll also be finding more ways to efficiently use electricity in other applications so that less new capacity is required to meet the demand from electric vehicles.
Everyone is all in a dither about electric cars and how they are going to save everyone and everything from pollution, I say that’s all well and good but no one has ever asked the question….when you plug in your electric car at home to recharge the batteries….won’t your power bill go up just a bit….we unplugged our hot tub and saved approximately $60.00 a month for a piddley hot tub ….what pray tell will it cost John Q Public for this feel good car on their monthly power bill
Shane,
While there’s no doubt that switching to electric cars will put some additional strain on the electric system, it will not have as much of an impact as you might think. The issue really comes down to a question of power vs. energy. Power can be defined as the rate at which energy is delivered, dE/dt for those who know some calculus. Energy is usually measured in Joules (1J = 1W * 1s), or kWh, which is just a scaling difference. Power is measured in Watts.
We have no issues with delivering more total energy. When we need to buy electrical energy from outside our own generating capacity, the real issue is that the power demanded is greater than the peak power capability of our own generators. In other words, more people want energy “right now” than we can deliver “right now. When we build new generating capacity, it’s because we need more power, not more energy.
Peak demand for electricity comes during the morning/early evening (winter) or late morning/early afternoon (summer). Conversely, the peak demand for charging electric cars will come when people come home from work in the evening, and plug in their cars.
If there is some potential for overlap in the peak hours, this can also be addressed through market-based solutions, namely time-of-use pricing, to which Ontario is already well on its way to implementing. Electric cars are already being designed with built-in timers to charge at off-peak hours, to reduce the electric bill (configured by the owner, of course). Future generations may even be capable of communicating with the electric company, allowing the owner to sell stored electricity back to the grid during peak hours.
Sure your electricity bill will go up; but your gasoline expenses will drop to zero.
Opel estimates that that their electric vehicle will cost 2 cents/Km VS 9/cents gasoline (based on European pricing).
As for where the electricity will come from, there are a number of things to keep in mind:
1) the majority of charging time will be overnight while parked at home. Currently during these hours 80% of electricity is wasted in the grid unused.
2) nuclear isn’t out. The greenies don’t like it but both major parties in Canada (Libs and Cons) support expanded nuke power. Ontario about to build at least one new plant and other provinces are considering it as well.
3) mass adoption of electric vehicles would see electricity conserved in some areas (the closure of gasoline stations, repair shops and refineries)
Lastly, the battery replacements will be a major challenge however, I and many others expect that within 10-15 years there will be a major breakthrough on the battery issue. Just a few months ago we saw a breakthrough which will solve the charge up time problem: we can now fully charge the cars in under 30 minutes instead of a 4-5 hours.
@Richard,
That’s a good question, but the answer might surprise you. Taking the example of the Chevy Volt, which will get 64km on a single charge in pure electric mode. To charge that battery from empty to full would cost you $1.55 using current electricity and delivery charges for the city of Ottawa. After the battery is empty, this car will get about 4.5L/100km running on the internal combustion engine.
Conversely, the 2009 Toyota Prius gets about 4.2L/100km all the time, and so would cost $2.47 in gasoline to go the same distance, using the price of gasoline across the street from me at the moment ($0.92/L).
The real question not being asked about electric cars is how the heck you are going to heat the interior in a -30C Winnipeg winter? Hydroelectricity is abundant and renewable in Manitoba, but this is a place where people use remote starters to warm their cars up by idling them for half and hour in winter before driving off.
CMP,
That’s a really good point, particularly when you consider that battery efficiency drops off quickly with temperature. In fact, using the battery when it’s too cold can actually damage the battery permanently.
Personally, that’s one of the main reasons why I prefer the Volt-style E-REV for Canada, with both a battery and an engine. If the car is too cold to run the battery, it automatically starts the engine and runs completely off gasoline, until the battery has warmed up enough to use electric-only mode. Pure battery-electric cars will have a hard time getting around this problem.
The Volt mules already passed their cold-weather tests in Kapuskasing and Michigan this winter.
Even using electricity generated from coal–COAL!–the emissions from an electric car are lower than the emissions from a gasoline powered car for the same number of kilometres driven. The difference is that gigantic power plants are far more efficient than the internal combustion engines in most cars.
http://planettesla.com/wikis/t.....ngtailpipe
Depends where you’re from. Charest just announced another huge hydro electric project in Quebec. We already have a huge surplus of electricity which we sell off and this will only add to it.
Why didn’t you consider hydro?
RD, how much of that electricity surplus came from Newfoundland and Labrador?
I’ll readily admit that I’m pleased to see Electric Cars coming to market. The ZENN will soon be readily accessible in Ontario, not just Toronto.
That being said, right now, I can’t see those vehicles being of much use in the more rural communities, and in several places in the large urban centres like the GTA since they can’t reach safe speeds.
The McGuinty Government is currently restricting electric cars to roads of 50 km/h or less, and may only cross over higher speed roads and they must display a slow moving vehicle sign on the back of the car.
Under those conditions, (which is where things currently stand) there will be little use for the electric cars (purely electric) for things other than running to the grocery store or performing other short distance errands provided you have the proper road access.
Eventually we may get there, and there’s talk of much faster cars coming to market “soon”, but you’ll have to forgive me if I don’t hold my breath until that time, and prices on what is otherwise an enclosed golf-cart for all the use most people would get out of it come down to reflect the true current cost to benefit ratio to the individual at large.
Sean,
regardless of whether the electricity comes from N-L or Quebec is besides the point. The question was where the electricity was going to come from since electricity only came from non-renewable resources.
The comment I was responding to has since been removed or something.
I just think Hydro electricity needs to be developed. Environmentalists should understand the difference between greed and necessity.
RD, on that we can agree. Environmentalists sometimes go overboard in their racial (human) self-hatred.
As far as the Quebec thing goes, Quebec may or may not have a surplus of electricity depending on how much of that surplus is obtained as a result of the hydro-electric facility they have appropriated in Newfoundland & Labrador. A situation our buddy Danny Williams continuously bemoans that his province is still ripped-off by. To claim that Quebec itself has excess electricity (and in claiming I mean Charest) could quite possibly be a misnomer.
Danny is doing his job: fighting for money for his province. Hydro did not appropriate anything. A deal is a deal, and frankly, Quebec got the better end of it.
Churchill Falls produces 5,6 Mw of electricity. Quebec gets a fraction of that, to add to their 30 Mw capacity of electricity.
They just announced another 2.6 Mw will be added with the Romaine river project.
Hydro Quebec, for all it’s faults makes a decent case for nationalized electricity. My heating averages out to about 2000$ per year and I live in Montreal. Compare that to Hydro 1 in Ontario??? For warmer weather to boot.