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	<title>Comments on: The NFL in Toronto - a Political Football?</title>
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	<link>http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2008/06/17/the-nfl-in-toronto-a-political-football/</link>
	<description>Conservative group weblog that publishes daily commentary on political events and topics affecting Canada, the United States and the world.</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 03:05:05 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Shane</title>
		<link>http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2008/06/17/the-nfl-in-toronto-a-political-football/#comment-181776</link>
		<dc:creator>Shane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 20:57:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thepolitic.com/?p=3349#comment-181776</guid>
		<description>A friend of mine responds: 

&lt;i&gt;"Although I understand where you are coming from, I just want to point out the CFL is not a minor league. Our sponsors pay major league $$$ to have their brands advertised in our programs, in our websites and in our braodcasts, tv and radio alike. Try telling our players that they play in a minor league. Yes, the majority of CFL players grew up playing 4 down ball but many of them like our game and have opted to stick around the great white north because our game won't put them to sleep. Many of them have also opted to stick around because our game is about heart and passion unlike the NFL, where it's about the almighty dollar. Please know that I am aware of guys like Brett Farve, Joe Mantana and Shaun Alexander who all have a heart and passion for the game. But there is something different about our game. There is something different about the attitude of our players. Some of these guys have the skill to make it in the NFL but choose to stay in the CFL. Why is that? What makes them decide to stay? I'll let you figure it out."&lt;/i&gt;

To which I reply: 

The CFL gets major league TV coverage here in Canada, but that's because the NFL isn't here.  Still, the WHL (and OHL and QMJHL) get TV coverage on TSN and stuff too.  They are most decidedly minor leagues.  In a scenario where the NFL came into Toronto, it would quickly become clear how they are related.  The NFL would probably sign a massive agreement with one Canadian network and another Canadian network would sign the CFL to compete, but the ratings would never come close.

Is the CFL a professional league?  100% yes!  I have all the respect in the world for CFL players - they are truly excellent at what they do and that's why they are both entertaining to watch and worth their salaries.  However, I don't know of a single CFL player who wouldn't drop everything if they had a shot at playing in the NFL.  That to me demonstrates the minor league nature of the CFL.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A friend of mine responds: </p>
<p><i>&#8220;Although I understand where you are coming from, I just want to point out the CFL is not a minor league. Our sponsors pay major league $$$ to have their brands advertised in our programs, in our websites and in our braodcasts, tv and radio alike. Try telling our players that they play in a minor league. Yes, the majority of CFL players grew up playing 4 down ball but many of them like our game and have opted to stick around the great white north because our game won&#8217;t put them to sleep. Many of them have also opted to stick around because our game is about heart and passion unlike the NFL, where it&#8217;s about the almighty dollar. Please know that I am aware of guys like Brett Farve, Joe Mantana and Shaun Alexander who all have a heart and passion for the game. But there is something different about our game. There is something different about the attitude of our players. Some of these guys have the skill to make it in the NFL but choose to stay in the CFL. Why is that? What makes them decide to stay? I&#8217;ll let you figure it out.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>To which I reply: </p>
<p>The CFL gets major league TV coverage here in Canada, but that&#8217;s because the NFL isn&#8217;t here.  Still, the WHL (and OHL and QMJHL) get TV coverage on TSN and stuff too.  They are most decidedly minor leagues.  In a scenario where the NFL came into Toronto, it would quickly become clear how they are related.  The NFL would probably sign a massive agreement with one Canadian network and another Canadian network would sign the CFL to compete, but the ratings would never come close.</p>
<p>Is the CFL a professional league?  100% yes!  I have all the respect in the world for CFL players - they are truly excellent at what they do and that&#8217;s why they are both entertaining to watch and worth their salaries.  However, I don&#8217;t know of a single CFL player who wouldn&#8217;t drop everything if they had a shot at playing in the NFL.  That to me demonstrates the minor league nature of the CFL.</p>
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		<title>By: Lord Kitchener's Own</title>
		<link>http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2008/06/17/the-nfl-in-toronto-a-political-football/#comment-181774</link>
		<dc:creator>Lord Kitchener's Own</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 20:29:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thepolitic.com/?p=3349#comment-181774</guid>
		<description>One problem for the CFL, I think, is that it's not just about the two leagues, it's really about the two FRANCHISES in Toronto.  Will Toronto support both a CFL and an NFL franchise (WILL, not "can").  There are enough sports fans in Toronto to easily support both a CFL and an NFL franchise, imho, but will those fans come out to see the CFL product once the NFL product is available to them (even if it's just "available" to them on T.V.).  In other markets, Edmonton, Montreal, God knows Saskatchewan, the CFL fans are passionate about CANADIAN football, and their franchise in particular.  There's some of that in Toronto too, of course, but I also feel like some of the Toronto market is too fickle.  They'll go to see the Argos because it's the best football available, but will they continue to do so once it's (arguably) not the best game in town?  Will the citizens of a city that prides itself on being "major league" still frequent what you call a "minor league" when the "big league" is an option?

I think the answer could be yes for some of the reasons you note (tickets are cheaper, the Argos have a real and positive "community presence", there is a bit of patriotism and "Yay Canada!" involved...) but I can also see the Argos failing to keep their base, and maybe even collapsing under the new competition.  And the problem is, without Toronto the CFL may still exist, but not in a form you'd recognize today.  A LOT of that national ad money the CFL gets is because Toronto is a CFL market.  A CFL without Toronto would be a radically different entity than what we know today!

As I said, I think it's entirely possible that you're right, and that the different experience, different fan base, and different price point will ensure that the Argos can still compete when the NFL comes here permanently (I'm pretty convinced that'll happen now somehow, eventually).  However if I were the CFL I'd be nervous, and DEFINITELY worried about corporate sponsorship.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One problem for the CFL, I think, is that it&#8217;s not just about the two leagues, it&#8217;s really about the two FRANCHISES in Toronto.  Will Toronto support both a CFL and an NFL franchise (WILL, not &#8220;can&#8221;).  There are enough sports fans in Toronto to easily support both a CFL and an NFL franchise, imho, but will those fans come out to see the CFL product once the NFL product is available to them (even if it&#8217;s just &#8220;available&#8221; to them on T.V.).  In other markets, Edmonton, Montreal, God knows Saskatchewan, the CFL fans are passionate about CANADIAN football, and their franchise in particular.  There&#8217;s some of that in Toronto too, of course, but I also feel like some of the Toronto market is too fickle.  They&#8217;ll go to see the Argos because it&#8217;s the best football available, but will they continue to do so once it&#8217;s (arguably) not the best game in town?  Will the citizens of a city that prides itself on being &#8220;major league&#8221; still frequent what you call a &#8220;minor league&#8221; when the &#8220;big league&#8221; is an option?</p>
<p>I think the answer could be yes for some of the reasons you note (tickets are cheaper, the Argos have a real and positive &#8220;community presence&#8221;, there is a bit of patriotism and &#8220;Yay Canada!&#8221; involved&#8230;) but I can also see the Argos failing to keep their base, and maybe even collapsing under the new competition.  And the problem is, without Toronto the CFL may still exist, but not in a form you&#8217;d recognize today.  A LOT of that national ad money the CFL gets is because Toronto is a CFL market.  A CFL without Toronto would be a radically different entity than what we know today!</p>
<p>As I said, I think it&#8217;s entirely possible that you&#8217;re right, and that the different experience, different fan base, and different price point will ensure that the Argos can still compete when the NFL comes here permanently (I&#8217;m pretty convinced that&#8217;ll happen now somehow, eventually).  However if I were the CFL I&#8217;d be nervous, and DEFINITELY worried about corporate sponsorship.</p>
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