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	<title>Comments on: The Courts &#38; A Branch Of Government That Might Need Trimming&#8230;</title>
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	<link>http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2008/05/16/the-courts-a-branch-of-government-that-might-need-trimming/</link>
	<description>Conservative group weblog that publishes daily commentary on political events and topics affecting Canada, the United States and the world.</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 20 Aug 2008 08:53:04 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Gayle</title>
		<link>http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2008/05/16/the-courts-a-branch-of-government-that-might-need-trimming/#comment-181439</link>
		<dc:creator>Gayle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 May 2008 03:22:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thepolitic.com/?p=3291#comment-181439</guid>
		<description>"One dead plus a gang rape and the Principal walks free on a legal loophole for the 6 month limit on the crime reporting."

What?

The only "6 month rule" in Canada applies to minor offences. It does not apply to murder or rape.

Please try to use actual facts to make your point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;One dead plus a gang rape and the Principal walks free on a legal loophole for the 6 month limit on the crime reporting.&#8221;</p>
<p>What?</p>
<p>The only &#8220;6 month rule&#8221; in Canada applies to minor offences. It does not apply to murder or rape.</p>
<p>Please try to use actual facts to make your point.</p>
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		<title>By: Roger</title>
		<link>http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2008/05/16/the-courts-a-branch-of-government-that-might-need-trimming/#comment-181438</link>
		<dc:creator>Roger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 May 2008 02:53:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thepolitic.com/?p=3291#comment-181438</guid>
		<description>If you ask a Lawyer why Murder is Illegal they will tell you because it's against the Law.

 Most average people know that Murder is wrong because of the collective Morals and conscience of Society that agreed it was wrong ....long befor the SCOC was created .
 The SCOC has made Marriage a Human-Right when not one Document on Earth or at the U.N. has declared Marriage a Right , so remember this when 3 people want to marry just for the Benefits , and when 2 brothers want to marry and have no plans for children who will tell them it's wrong because Marriage isn't a Human Right.

   In 1985 the SCOC ruled that anyone outside of canada is protected by the Charter Of Rights for legal Aid and Welfare if they can step on Canadian soil , since then we spend over $500'000'000.00 ayear to support Tourists that have now been in canada for up to 15 years as they use legal Aid to fight being removed.
  With 6.5 Billion people outside of canada it will only be a matter of time befor we are bankrupted by  Refugee Lawyers  and Human Smuggling rings that the NDP supports , remember Olivia Chow  at the "Noone is Illegal" rally to let Mexicans stay in canada and get free Schooling for their Kids, and the C.W. Jeffrey's cover-up
from Miller's "Don't ask..Don't tell" that the Union agreed to. 
  One dead plus a gang rape and the Principal walks free on a legal loophole for the 6 month limit on the crime reporting.
  And on and on and on.......</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you ask a Lawyer why Murder is Illegal they will tell you because it&#8217;s against the Law.</p>
<p> Most average people know that Murder is wrong because of the collective Morals and conscience of Society that agreed it was wrong &#8230;.long befor the SCOC was created .<br />
 The SCOC has made Marriage a Human-Right when not one Document on Earth or at the U.N. has declared Marriage a Right , so remember this when 3 people want to marry just for the Benefits , and when 2 brothers want to marry and have no plans for children who will tell them it&#8217;s wrong because Marriage isn&#8217;t a Human Right.</p>
<p>   In 1985 the SCOC ruled that anyone outside of canada is protected by the Charter Of Rights for legal Aid and Welfare if they can step on Canadian soil , since then we spend over $500&#8242;000&#8242;000.00 ayear to support Tourists that have now been in canada for up to 15 years as they use legal Aid to fight being removed.<br />
  With 6.5 Billion people outside of canada it will only be a matter of time befor we are bankrupted by  Refugee Lawyers  and Human Smuggling rings that the NDP supports , remember Olivia Chow  at the &#8220;Noone is Illegal&#8221; rally to let Mexicans stay in canada and get free Schooling for their Kids, and the C.W. Jeffrey&#8217;s cover-up<br />
from Miller&#8217;s &#8220;Don&#8217;t ask..Don&#8217;t tell&#8221; that the Union agreed to.<br />
  One dead plus a gang rape and the Principal walks free on a legal loophole for the 6 month limit on the crime reporting.<br />
  And on and on and on&#8230;&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Gayle</title>
		<link>http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2008/05/16/the-courts-a-branch-of-government-that-might-need-trimming/#comment-181437</link>
		<dc:creator>Gayle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 May 2008 02:24:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thepolitic.com/?p=3291#comment-181437</guid>
		<description>"So you do the crime, you do the time…"

Again - not sure what you mean.

Do you have any rational arguments against this decision?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;So you do the crime, you do the time…&#8221;</p>
<p>Again - not sure what you mean.</p>
<p>Do you have any rational arguments against this decision?</p>
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		<title>By: C</title>
		<link>http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2008/05/16/the-courts-a-branch-of-government-that-might-need-trimming/#comment-181436</link>
		<dc:creator>C</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 May 2008 02:01:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thepolitic.com/?p=3291#comment-181436</guid>
		<description>"As for the last paragraph above, it’s quite simple: the Charter, so the myth goes, is ambiguous in order to adapt to changing dynamics in our culture. Such reasoning has been used to overturn not only existing laws, but previous decisions laid down by the courts of yesteryear."

Which particular point in time would you pefer decisions to be set in stone from? I'm curious as to which particular era you'd see as being unchangeable, and why you'd pick that particular year.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;As for the last paragraph above, it’s quite simple: the Charter, so the myth goes, is ambiguous in order to adapt to changing dynamics in our culture. Such reasoning has been used to overturn not only existing laws, but previous decisions laid down by the courts of yesteryear.&#8221;</p>
<p>Which particular point in time would you pefer decisions to be set in stone from? I&#8217;m curious as to which particular era you&#8217;d see as being unchangeable, and why you&#8217;d pick that particular year.</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew</title>
		<link>http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2008/05/16/the-courts-a-branch-of-government-that-might-need-trimming/#comment-181435</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 May 2008 01:02:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thepolitic.com/?p=3291#comment-181435</guid>
		<description>"Nothing you say changes the fact that 18 is the arbitrary age we settled on long ago to delineate between child and adult."

So you do the crime, you do the time...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Nothing you say changes the fact that 18 is the arbitrary age we settled on long ago to delineate between child and adult.&#8221;</p>
<p>So you do the crime, you do the time&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Gayle</title>
		<link>http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2008/05/16/the-courts-a-branch-of-government-that-might-need-trimming/#comment-181434</link>
		<dc:creator>Gayle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 May 2008 00:52:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thepolitic.com/?p=3291#comment-181434</guid>
		<description>Nothing you say changes the fact that 18 is the arbitrary age we settled on long ago to delineate between child and adult. 

Your concerns are addressed by the fact that 14 year old may still be liable to face an adult sentence, should the conditions merit such a sentence.

As for your last point, that is why I wrote this in my first post:

"They are bound by previous decisions unless there is a change in circumstances."

What you describe is a change in circumstance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nothing you say changes the fact that 18 is the arbitrary age we settled on long ago to delineate between child and adult. </p>
<p>Your concerns are addressed by the fact that 14 year old may still be liable to face an adult sentence, should the conditions merit such a sentence.</p>
<p>As for your last point, that is why I wrote this in my first post:</p>
<p>&#8220;They are bound by previous decisions unless there is a change in circumstances.&#8221;</p>
<p>What you describe is a change in circumstance.</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew</title>
		<link>http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2008/05/16/the-courts-a-branch-of-government-that-might-need-trimming/#comment-181433</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 May 2008 00:45:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thepolitic.com/?p=3291#comment-181433</guid>
		<description>There's a simple difference between voting and committing a violent crime Gayle: the former is a decision that we base on sufficient life experience, while the latter is a limitation put on all citizens from the point of an earlier age, 12, in order to maintain social harmony.  I'm sure you're not going to find any sound-minded 15 year-old who isn't quite aware of what they are doing when they commit a crime, although the same cannot be said for voters nearly ten years older.  The same ambiguity does not exist in the former as it does with the latter -- on that note, see how many times voter opinion polls fluctuate!  Exceptions exist for criminal cases, but that is why prior to Friday, we had an onus put on the defence to demonstrate that such cases fit the uniqueness that qualified for a different sentencing structure.

As for the last paragraph above, it's quite simple: the Charter, so the myth goes, is ambiguous in order to adapt to changing dynamics in our culture.  Such reasoning has been used to overturn not only existing laws, but previous decisions laid down by the courts of yesteryear.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s a simple difference between voting and committing a violent crime Gayle: the former is a decision that we base on sufficient life experience, while the latter is a limitation put on all citizens from the point of an earlier age, 12, in order to maintain social harmony.  I&#8217;m sure you&#8217;re not going to find any sound-minded 15 year-old who isn&#8217;t quite aware of what they are doing when they commit a crime, although the same cannot be said for voters nearly ten years older.  The same ambiguity does not exist in the former as it does with the latter &#8212; on that note, see how many times voter opinion polls fluctuate!  Exceptions exist for criminal cases, but that is why prior to Friday, we had an onus put on the defence to demonstrate that such cases fit the uniqueness that qualified for a different sentencing structure.</p>
<p>As for the last paragraph above, it&#8217;s quite simple: the Charter, so the myth goes, is ambiguous in order to adapt to changing dynamics in our culture.  Such reasoning has been used to overturn not only existing laws, but previous decisions laid down by the courts of yesteryear.</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew</title>
		<link>http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2008/05/16/the-courts-a-branch-of-government-that-might-need-trimming/#comment-181432</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 May 2008 00:44:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thepolitic.com/?p=3291#comment-181432</guid>
		<description>There's a simple difference between voting and committing a violent crime Gayle: the former is a decision that we base on sufficient life experience, while the latter is a limitation put on all citizens from the point of an earlier age, 12, in order to maintain social harmony.  I'm sure you're not going to find any sound-minded 15 year-old who isn't quite aware of what they are doing when they commit a crime, although the same cannot be said for voters nearly ten years older.  

As for the last paragraph above, it's quite simple: the Charter, so the myth goes, is ambiguous in order to adapt to changing dynamics in our culture.  Such reasoning has been used to overturn not only existing laws, but previous decisions laid down by the courts of yesteryear.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s a simple difference between voting and committing a violent crime Gayle: the former is a decision that we base on sufficient life experience, while the latter is a limitation put on all citizens from the point of an earlier age, 12, in order to maintain social harmony.  I&#8217;m sure you&#8217;re not going to find any sound-minded 15 year-old who isn&#8217;t quite aware of what they are doing when they commit a crime, although the same cannot be said for voters nearly ten years older.  </p>
<p>As for the last paragraph above, it&#8217;s quite simple: the Charter, so the myth goes, is ambiguous in order to adapt to changing dynamics in our culture.  Such reasoning has been used to overturn not only existing laws, but previous decisions laid down by the courts of yesteryear.</p>
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		<title>By: Gayle</title>
		<link>http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2008/05/16/the-courts-a-branch-of-government-that-might-need-trimming/#comment-181431</link>
		<dc:creator>Gayle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 May 2008 00:19:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thepolitic.com/?p=3291#comment-181431</guid>
		<description>"I highly doubt that the five justices who made this ruling a reality possess the collective psychological and biological wisdom to make that call for a country of 33 million!"

Actually, the different treatment of 17 and 18 year olds was not constructed by the Court. This country has long held the age of 18 as the age of being an adult. This applies to rights as well as responsibilities. It may be an arbitrary age, but it is one that has delineated the difference between child and adult for a long time.

How do you feel about giving 16 and 17 year olds voting rights? How about the right to consume alcohol, take out a bank loan, sue someone etc.

What about the 20 year old man who suffers from brain damage and who is required to be sentenced as an adult even though emotionally and intellectually he has the mind of a child?

As for your last paragraph, I am sorry but I do not know what you are trying to say.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I highly doubt that the five justices who made this ruling a reality possess the collective psychological and biological wisdom to make that call for a country of 33 million!&#8221;</p>
<p>Actually, the different treatment of 17 and 18 year olds was not constructed by the Court. This country has long held the age of 18 as the age of being an adult. This applies to rights as well as responsibilities. It may be an arbitrary age, but it is one that has delineated the difference between child and adult for a long time.</p>
<p>How do you feel about giving 16 and 17 year olds voting rights? How about the right to consume alcohol, take out a bank loan, sue someone etc.</p>
<p>What about the 20 year old man who suffers from brain damage and who is required to be sentenced as an adult even though emotionally and intellectually he has the mind of a child?</p>
<p>As for your last paragraph, I am sorry but I do not know what you are trying to say.</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew</title>
		<link>http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2008/05/16/the-courts-a-branch-of-government-that-might-need-trimming/#comment-181429</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 May 2008 23:08:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thepolitic.com/?p=3291#comment-181429</guid>
		<description>Gayle, your assertion would be dependent on individual judges; will some still apply a stricter sentence?  Most probably!  The SCC ruling though makes it easier for the legal community as a whole to dismiss horrendous crimes as juvenile immaturity and allow the kids to get out in society earlier.  In essence, an 18 year-old can be given a full sentence for a brutal rape and murder combo while someone who is *only* 17 will have an easier time to get only a fraction of that time.  We can argue about the maturity difference or lack thereof, but I highly doubt that the five justices who made this ruling a reality possess the collective psychological and biological wisdom to make that call for a country of 33 million!

I wouldn't dismiss much of what you easily do above, but certainly the ability of judges to overturn any rulings though as many, on all sides of the political spectrum, have been hoping and sometimes seen wholesale deconstruction of previous rulings, what with judges that run around explaining the Charter and society as "evolving", and what not!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gayle, your assertion would be dependent on individual judges; will some still apply a stricter sentence?  Most probably!  The SCC ruling though makes it easier for the legal community as a whole to dismiss horrendous crimes as juvenile immaturity and allow the kids to get out in society earlier.  In essence, an 18 year-old can be given a full sentence for a brutal rape and murder combo while someone who is *only* 17 will have an easier time to get only a fraction of that time.  We can argue about the maturity difference or lack thereof, but I highly doubt that the five justices who made this ruling a reality possess the collective psychological and biological wisdom to make that call for a country of 33 million!</p>
<p>I wouldn&#8217;t dismiss much of what you easily do above, but certainly the ability of judges to overturn any rulings though as many, on all sides of the political spectrum, have been hoping and sometimes seen wholesale deconstruction of previous rulings, what with judges that run around explaining the Charter and society as &#8220;evolving&#8221;, and what not!</p>
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		<title>By: Gayle</title>
		<link>http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2008/05/16/the-courts-a-branch-of-government-that-might-need-trimming/#comment-181427</link>
		<dc:creator>Gayle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 May 2008 18:06:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thepolitic.com/?p=3291#comment-181427</guid>
		<description>The SCC did not find the YCJA to be unconstitutional. They just found the provision that places the onus on a young person to justify a youth sentence is unconstitutional. The court ruled the crown must justify an adult sentence. In other words, an adult sentence is still available for young persons convicted a serious crimes.

In practical terms I do not think this ruling is terribly significant. By way of example, in Alberta several courts have ruled this reverse onus unconstitutional, but then went on to sentence the young person to an adult sentence anyway.

An assertion that youth sentences are "Happy Meals" is simply false.

Finally, you do not seem to understand the legal rule of stare decisis. The Court cannot over-rule a previous decision simply due to a change in composition of the court. They are bound by previous decisions unless there is a change in circumstances.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The SCC did not find the YCJA to be unconstitutional. They just found the provision that places the onus on a young person to justify a youth sentence is unconstitutional. The court ruled the crown must justify an adult sentence. In other words, an adult sentence is still available for young persons convicted a serious crimes.</p>
<p>In practical terms I do not think this ruling is terribly significant. By way of example, in Alberta several courts have ruled this reverse onus unconstitutional, but then went on to sentence the young person to an adult sentence anyway.</p>
<p>An assertion that youth sentences are &#8220;Happy Meals&#8221; is simply false.</p>
<p>Finally, you do not seem to understand the legal rule of stare decisis. The Court cannot over-rule a previous decision simply due to a change in composition of the court. They are bound by previous decisions unless there is a change in circumstances.</p>
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		<title>By: Roger</title>
		<link>http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2008/05/16/the-courts-a-branch-of-government-that-might-need-trimming/#comment-181423</link>
		<dc:creator>Roger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 May 2008 12:03:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thepolitic.com/?p=3291#comment-181423</guid>
		<description>Basically 1 Judge had the power ove 8 other Judges to take sides and create the Correct ruling.

  How can all 8 Judges be correct in their views until 1 lone yahoo enters the room to break the tie , if this is how canada is run then why not save money and have 5 Judges who can have a 3-2 ruling because it all comes down to 1 Judge picking which 2 Judges they agree with rathee than what's best for canada.
    
  These people aren't even Elected and yet can tell me what Rights I'm granted according to their perception of reality.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Basically 1 Judge had the power ove 8 other Judges to take sides and create the Correct ruling.</p>
<p>  How can all 8 Judges be correct in their views until 1 lone yahoo enters the room to break the tie , if this is how canada is run then why not save money and have 5 Judges who can have a 3-2 ruling because it all comes down to 1 Judge picking which 2 Judges they agree with rathee than what&#8217;s best for canada.</p>
<p>  These people aren&#8217;t even Elected and yet can tell me what Rights I&#8217;m granted according to their perception of reality.</p>
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		<title>By: Blue Like You &#187; Blog Archive &#187; No RCMP charges</title>
		<link>http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2008/05/16/the-courts-a-branch-of-government-that-might-need-trimming/#comment-181421</link>
		<dc:creator>Blue Like You &#187; Blog Archive &#187; No RCMP charges</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 May 2008 10:17:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thepolitic.com/?p=3291#comment-181421</guid>
		<description>[...] Update : Matthew at the Politic has a great post on yesterday&#8217;s Supreme Court ruling. Posted in Federal politics, Too many [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] Update : Matthew at the Politic has a great post on yesterday&#8217;s Supreme Court ruling. Posted in Federal politics, Too many [&#8230;]</p>
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