For an ancient culture, I have to admit how impressed I am at how these people get around…
Another city in Nova Scotia has made national headlines over the fact that they refuse to hang an abominable rainbow coloured flag off of it’s city hall’s flag polls. But before we allow the accusations of homophobia and hissyfits to run wild, take note of this:
Last year in Truro, after the controversy over the pride flag, town council approved a policy that allows only the Canadian, Nova Scotian and Truro flags to be hoisted on municipal poles.
So, if I understand it correctly, the homosexual lobby wants:
a Canadian flag to acknowledge federal sovereignty over the area,
a Nova Scotian flag to acknowledge provincial sovereignty over the area,
a Truro flag to acknowledge municipal sovereignty over the area…and a flag representing what, homosexual sovereignty over the city?! Of course, if the local Catholic church wanted to hoist a flag from the Vatican or just from the CWL over the hall, I’m sure that we’d be hearing the shrieking cries from the usual crowd of angry middle-aged atheists and assorted haters. Hey, we don’t even need to limit our discrimination just to churches this time: Tom’s Bakery’s flag wouldn’t be right because it would represent corporate interests influencing our politicians; having a Red Cross flag of course would be inappropriate because it only shows the influence that that organization has in the community when there are so many other worthy causes; and we couldn’t allow a flag from the Shriners to go up since not everyone supports their causes, given the influence that their donors have! Well my fabulous friends, I guess you can’t get more equal than that!
One question though: whose agenda/influence are we endorsing by putting up a rainbow-coloured flag? Just something to consider…
Charles Anthony wrote:
I would not get too uptight about this flag.
In answer to your question, the flag may be honoring:
Double Rainbow over the Immaculate Conception Ukrainian Catholic Church
Rainbow of Hope for Children
Annual Rainbow-Catholic Co-Ed Basketball
Rainbow Spirit Project
Rainbow Kids
Posted on 05-Feb-08 at 11:47 am | Permalink
jmorrison wrote:
i am always amazed that homosexuals appropriate symbols like rainbows to promote a very dark and dangerous lifestyle. the behaviour was and still is devient and perverse. this has not changed in thousands of years and will not change no matter how it is spun. i don’t care what someones sexual practices are but please don’t tell me i have to accept it as normal.
Posted on 05-Feb-08 at 11:49 am | Permalink
Anon-e-mouse wrote:
The argument hasn’t been conceived that can convince me homosexuality is normal. It is indefensible on the grounds of theism as all major monotheistic religions (Judaism, Christianity and Islam) condemn it. Furthermore, it is indefensible in terms of evolutionary theory. It doesn’t matter how smart, fast, or strong you are, the species ain’t gonna survive if you go around planting your seed in the wrong garden.
Posted on 05-Feb-08 at 2:39 pm | Permalink
Ryan wrote:
I see, so in your view flags outside of city halls symbolize only sovreignty? City halls across the country fly flags other than ones that represent levels of government e.g. NHL hockey teams, cultural groups such as Acadians or Franco-Ontarians.
So when Edmonton City Hall flies an Oilers flag out front (if they start stringing together some wins that is), I will eagerly check in here to see if you decry the team’s claim on territory in Alberta, you know, on behalf of people that do not like hockey and the dangerous lifestyle it promotes.
Posted on 05-Feb-08 at 5:36 pm | Permalink
Matthew wrote:
Okay Ryan,
So would you be cool then if we hung a big Vatican flag on the front of city hall, seeing as there the angry mob of godless people really shouldn’t be prohibited from objecting according to your logic…?
Posted on 05-Feb-08 at 6:11 pm | Permalink
Shorts in knots. « The Bear Diaries wrote:
[…] to The Politic, where there is excellent […]
Posted on 05-Feb-08 at 6:32 pm | Permalink
Ryan wrote:
Matthew - for something like world youth day, that’s fine with me because Catholics are a part of our communities. Homosexual people are part of our communities as well.
It is the angry mob of God (use a capital G by the way) people that seem to inflame these issues, not Godless people. Interesting isn’t it? Views?
Posted on 05-Feb-08 at 8:26 pm | Permalink
Matthew wrote:
Hi Ryan, I don’t see how it’s the people of faith who are inflaming the issue when council votes like the one I linked to are being brought to the media’s attention by homosexual activists who are also quick to offer their standard opinions about opponents being (by default) homophobic, intolerant, and discriminatory. This of course gets the crowds of atheists et al calling for a separation of church and state — an argument that is completely irrelevant here (there are people who don’t subscribe to any institutional belief system but also don’t want to pay for pride parades or have rainbow flags waved around on civic buildings). Why is it that CTV chose to report on the two cities in the entire country who wouldn’t fly these flags, when in fairness it could just as naturally report on the cities which did fly them (with quotes from anti-agenda activists for full effect). From where I see it, this should be a non-story from the start, but if we must report on it, then the real story to me is how unreasonable homosexual activists are in insisting their flag and all the messages associated with it gets a permanent spot at City Hall. In this regard, the WYD example is different since I have never heard of a case where a council has voted to permanently place such a flag on its hall.
Posted on 05-Feb-08 at 11:39 pm | Permalink
Smarter than Ezra wrote:
First we get rid of Unruh, now we get Matthew to pick up this old and dead horse that has been beaten to death.
Posted on 06-Feb-08 at 5:39 am | Permalink
Abattoir wrote:
Matthew,
Did you read your own link? The issue wasn’t about establishing a permanent rainbow flag on city hall, but rather raising it for pride week.
I can appreciate the desire for consistent policy, to be applied equally to all special interest groups. This should naturally include no municipal ‘Team Canada’ flags for the 2008 IIHF World Championships in Nova Scotia.
I disagree with Ms. MacDonald’s logic regarding the policy, but I can understand and respect her position. I will always disagree with governments setting policies and laws based on Scripture, as Mayor Wills seems to have done again.
Posted on 06-Feb-08 at 9:40 am | Permalink
Matthew wrote:
Abattoir, I have read my own link and no, a temporary flag was not what these activists were asking for in other cities, as I have noted in the past when those issues came up. As for basing laws on Scripture, perhaps we should do away with many of our laws on equality, anti-slavery, and freedom since they all find their roots in the Holy Scripture.
That aside though, city councils should have the authority which our provinces vested in them to either permit or deny homosexual parades on municipal roads and/or flags as they see fit as they are the representatives of their particular areas, whether it be for economic, moral or any other reason — that’s why we have a democratic system. Demanding attention, as London’s sodomite community did in the 1990s when Diane Haskett was mayor demonstrates most clearly just how authoritarian the intentions of these groups are and that they really have no respect for the true plurality of our country.
Posted on 06-Feb-08 at 11:49 am | Permalink
Progressive wrote:
The Politic…all Gay all the Time.
“i am always amazed that homosexuals appropriate symbols like rainbows to promote a very dark and dangerous lifestyle. the behaviour was and still is devient and perverse. this has not changed in thousands of years and will not change no matter how it is spun. i don’t care what someones sexual practices are but please don’t tell me i have to accept it as normal.”
Think about it a lot, don’t you?
Posted on 06-Feb-08 at 11:57 am | Permalink
Smarter than Ezra wrote:
I laugh at people who call other people sodomites, like they have never had a bj before. And then I get sad, because what if they have never had a bj before? So many conflicting emotions.
Posted on 06-Feb-08 at 1:20 pm | Permalink
Smarter than Ezra wrote:
I’m so annoyed that they’ve hijacked something as beautiful as a rainbow to represent themselves. All this prissy fussing they engage in only serves to alienate we hetero’s.
Posted on 06-Feb-08 at 1:59 pm | Permalink
mark peters wrote:
The policy passed by Pictou Council is completely indiscriminate; it covers everyone equally regardless of race, sex, religion, creed or tribe.
Posted on 06-Feb-08 at 2:22 pm | Permalink
Smarter than Ezra wrote:
It looks as though someone has appropriated my voice. Post # 14 is not mine.
Posted on 06-Feb-08 at 3:35 pm | Permalink
Anonymous wrote:
Hi! It’s mine. I posted & your name came up claiming my words. No idea how it happened but you must see the humour!
Posted on 06-Feb-08 at 6:56 pm | Permalink
Anonymous wrote:
Hi! It is mine. I posted and your name came up claiming my words. No idea how it happened. Funny though!
Posted on 06-Feb-08 at 6:57 pm | Permalink
Abattoir wrote:
Matthew,
If that was the issue in other cities, then we should be talking about those other cities. Making those claims about permanent flags, while holding up this case in Truro as an example, is intellectually dishonest, and a strawman argument.
Our laws should be based on morality and ethics, not Scripture. The two are not the same. Other religions are capable of making moral and ethical judgements without the benefit of Christian dogma. Secularist governments are similarly capable of such decisions. It is also irrelevant where such concepts have their roots. I believe Marsilio aptly made that observation last week.
As for denying them the ability to hold a parade - I’m afraid you’d have a difficult time with that one. While freedom of assembly doesn’t equal the right to a parade, freedom from discrimination does mean that you can’t deny someone a parade just because you don’t like them or their lifestyle. If they are celebrating something illegal, that’s a different story, but homosexuality hasn’t been illegal here for quite some time now.
Posted on 07-Feb-08 at 9:58 am | Permalink
Matthew wrote:
Abattoir, I really don’t know where to begin here with your post:
First off, the goal of permanent flags and “safe space” has been the open goal of these groups for years now. It’s intellectually dishonest to put arguments in my mouth, but not to repeat the stated goal of these organizations over the years.
You believe that morality can come from anywhere though, have fun with that too! Personally, I’d rather live in 1550s Europe than 2000s Saudi Arabia; especially if I were a woman! Of course, what you’re really saying though is that the quasi-existent morality system that secular societies are developing are just the best of both worlds; no God, and no oppression. Do me a favour, take a trip to Poland or the Czech Republic one day and ask the locals just how wonderful that end result of a secular society was? Or China, where they allow “religions” but only ones the government finds socially acceptable (sound familiar?)… If the HRCs here aren’t going to be around to bring us into a fundamentalist atheistic regime, I’m sure some other body under the ruse of the Charter will!
You really topped off your little critique though by saving the most outrageous for last: is it now a right to have a parade if you can prove that the local government has it out for you?! C’mon here; I didn’t say they couldn’t have a picnic in the park did I? I said they don’t have an entitlement to close off major arteries so they could put on what is essentially Porno on the Passing in most major cities these days. City councils are elected to represent the wishes of their constituents and if those people don’t want to close off a major road they all paid for so a group of hooligans can act animalistic for an afternoon on it, that’s their entitlement. II
Posted on 07-Feb-08 at 11:19 am | Permalink
Abattoir wrote:
Intellectually dishonest? Arguments in your mouth? The OP:
“So, if I understand it correctly, the homosexual lobby wants: … a Truro flag to acknowledge municipal sovereignty over the area…and a flag representing what, homosexual sovereignty over the city?!”
Your comment #8:
“… the real story to me is how unreasonable homosexual activists are in insisting their flag and all the messages associated with it gets a permanent spot at City Hall.”
Does this story have anything to do with establishing a permanent flag at City Hall in Truro, NS? If so, I missed it in the referenced story you linked to.
You believe that morality can only come from Scripture? That’s a very narrow view of the world, Matthew. Morality is itself a product of society, and is a constantly evolving concept. This has been true throughout history, including the history of Christianity and Judaism. This is a process that continues today, even in North America, and within Christianity. Look at the morality differences between Baptist, Mennonite, Catholic, and United members.
I too would rather live in 1550’s Europe than 2000’s Saudi Arabia, particularly if I were a woman. That is not to say that Saudi Arabia is incapable of morals; indeed, they have a very deeply-ingrained moral code. It just isn’t the same as ours.
Don’t put arguments in my mouth; I never claimed that all secular societies are better than all religious societies. Ours has developed in such a way that a secular government is capable of running the country justly and according to its own moral code. Passing judgement based on the religious beliefs of one group, when the population contains many who don’t subscribe to the same beliefs, is narrow-minded and inherently unjust.
And I in fact said precisely the opposite of what you claimed in your final paragraph. If a city grants permission for a parade, or hangs a flag, to celebrate a particular group of people, it can’t turn around and deny another group just because they don’t like them. If there is a legitimate reason (i.e. not enough people to make it worthwile, concern over public nudity) then that’s another matter.
Posted on 07-Feb-08 at 1:10 pm | Permalink
Matthew wrote:
Well congratulations Abattoir, you’ve just earned yourself troll status due to your dependence on those common liberal slurs like “narrow minded” and “intellectually dishonest” to make your only distinguishable point, which is that you just don’t like my way of thinking; good luck, and please make sure to take that pulpit/soap box you’ve been hauling around here with you!
Posted on 07-Feb-08 at 3:20 pm | Permalink
Smarter than Ezra wrote:
One jackass steps down, and another takes his place. *passes Matthew the Unruh hat*
Posted on 07-Feb-08 at 4:44 pm | Permalink
Ryan wrote:
“Well congratulations Abattoir, you’ve just earned yourself troll status”
Troll status has been conferred by Matthew! Let’s kill something in celebration! Congratulations Abattoir!
Matthew - you don’t like multi-syllabic words and other opinions or what? And take it easy on the soap box comments. You’re the one who kicked this off, talking about sodomites laying claim to territory and such. Did your box hold a different product than soap?
Posted on 07-Feb-08 at 9:33 pm | Permalink
Matthew wrote:
Ryan, I’ll let the record speak for itself. I will respond to comments when and how I want to, but I do respect those who are respectful. Many times I have engaged such people in debate and everything has been cool. There are a few people here though who want nothing more than to shout down every opinion that doesn’t fit in with their particular world view; I’m not a babysitter and I won’t acknowledge such behaviour as it gives these trolls the attention they so desire.
Posted on 08-Feb-08 at 11:39 am | Permalink
Smarter than Ezra wrote:
And when you really don’t like it, you just edit their posts, right? See July 7th, 2007 if you want your record to speak for itself.
Posted on 08-Feb-08 at 9:34 pm | Permalink
Smarter than Ezra wrote:
Or some date lat summer… Ugh… I actually don’t care enough to go back and check the exact date. You know, being an ignored troll and all…
Posted on 08-Feb-08 at 9:37 pm | Permalink