…is paved with the extortion attempts of Natives. Well, not like the majority highway that the Prime Minister is currently paving in Quebec, but consider this: a Liberal Premier is currently allowing a lot of terrorist Natives to run amok in Caledonia, the Conservative government in Ottawa is refusing to break bread with this group and now the Natives are threatening every community along the Grand River — many of which are part of swing ridings in south-western Ontario. Out of these ridings, Kitchener-Waterloo, Kitchener Centre, Brant and Guelph are all held by Liberal MPs and the latter three were all won within reasonably close margins (Kitchener-Waterloo is a distinct beast which likes to stick with an incumbent). Four ridings, 1.3% of our national seats total, could make all the difference if Stephen Harper is able to pick up another 20 seats in Quebec as many speculate he will do; in fact, it could turn a strong minority into a razor-thin majority. The Natives, in their quest to get their way, might consider this before they attempt to extort money and illegitimate taxes out of the half-a-million residents who live along the Grand River.
I’m sorry that they feel that their people got a raw deal from Confederation and in a perfect world, yes, the treaties negotiated over a hundred years ago (and gifts for that matter) were done in bad faith, but a Native today has no more right to rule over this land than an immigrant, a native-born Euro-Canadian or anyone else for that matter. Canada is a U.N.-recognized, politically sovereign entity which calls the shots in its territory. In all fairness, what have any of these mobsters or terrorists now crying crocodile tears done to deserve the very generous tax exemptions, government programs and hand-outs that they get besides winning the genetic lottery? Have all of those perks been considered by these people or should we subtract all of the tax money behind them from the total we are to pay this band for the Grand River territory (IF we even owe it to them post-negotiations!), because it might just turn out that the Natives owe us a nice big fat cheque along with the apology!
dalton wrote:
It’s good of you to acknowledge that many of the treaties were negotiated in bad faith. They remain, however, contracts between nations, and they fact that impose inconvenient obligations is pretty much irrelevant. That’s why, despite all the huffing and puffing of various governments (Conservative AND Liberal, with the notable and surprising exception of the Mulroney government), they remain in force, and will continue to do so.
“Canada is a U.N.-recognized, politically sovereign entity which calls the shots in its territory.”
It’s good that you cite UN recognition as an indicator of nationhood; I assume you therefore accept the UN’s repeated endorsement of Aboriginal title, the legal principle underlying native claims and treaties? Or does “UN recognition” only count when you get to use it in your argument? ;)
“In all fairness, what have any of these mobsters or terrorists now crying crocodile tears done to deserve the very generous tax exemptions, government programs and hand-outs that they get besides winning the genetic lottery?”
Well, without knowing exactly who you’re talking about here, I can say, in general terms, that First Nations and Inuit, in return for the benefits negotiated under treaties and claims, continue to allow Canada the rights of access, transit and trade that were originally negotiated.
But I’ve often made the same point as you - if the adherents of Flanagan really do think Canada is getting a raw deal, then fine. For example, let’s undo the Nunavut Land Claims Agreement, give Nunavut back to the Inuit, and allow them to negotiate a land use and occupancy agreement with Russia or the US. No problem.
Posted on 19-Jan-08 at 7:19 am | Permalink
Joanne (TB) wrote:
the Conservative government in Ottawa is refusing to break bread with this group
What are you referring to here? Just curious.
Posted on 19-Jan-08 at 7:40 am | Permalink
Jon wrote:
Treaties and contracts get rewritten all the time. It is high time these racist treaties were discarded, Canada should have only one class of citizen.
Posted on 19-Jan-08 at 9:11 am | Permalink
dalton wrote:
“Treaties and contracts get rewritten all the time.”
Yup, with the mutual agreement of both parties. First Nations would probably agree to that. When they’re unilaterally rewritten by one party, of course, it’s called “breaking”, not “rewriting”.
Posted on 19-Jan-08 at 9:38 am | Permalink
Matthew wrote:
Joanne: In regards to Caledonia, the feds have refused to negotiate freebies with the Natives, rightly citing that it is a provincial issue to police the area. This might change, to be a situation where like on other reserves, the federal government is wiling to move forward, but the indication I’m getting is that the government will not negotiate with terrorists.
Posted on 19-Jan-08 at 11:47 am | Permalink
dalton wrote:
Hi, Matthew.
a) You cite Canada’s recognition by the UN as an indicator of nationhood. Do you also, therefore, accept the UN’s recognition of Aboriginal title?
b) You suggest that Canadian funding to First Nations constitute “perks”. I own commercial rental property, and I receive funding on a regular basis from a small business, in return for which that business occupies and uses my property under specific terms defined in a binding contract. Do you consider the payment that I receive a “perk”?
Posted on 19-Jan-08 at 12:04 pm | Permalink
KEvron wrote:
“Matthew wrote:
Joanne:”
selective duhbatin’?
KEvron
Posted on 20-Jan-08 at 10:41 am | Permalink
KEvron wrote:
d’oh! i posted too soon.
KEvron
Posted on 20-Jan-08 at 10:42 am | Permalink
KEvron wrote:
d’oh! no, i didn’t!
KEvron
Posted on 20-Jan-08 at 11:18 am | Permalink
Groovy J wrote:
Shorter version:
Yes, we stole their land, but we called “No givers backsees!” So shut up.
Posted on 20-Jan-08 at 11:47 am | Permalink
dalton wrote:
So I’m trying to figure out the silence from our host. We know he’s alive, cuz he started another thread.
Matthew?
Posted on 20-Jan-08 at 12:43 pm | Permalink
Matthew wrote:
Groovy J, if we follow the logic that the current natives alive today are entitled to all the land they got ripped off on, then everyone of European, Asian, African, and Antartican (you never know…) decent should vacate the American continents. Why stop there though? We should investigate to see who the Natives took this land from when they came from Asia; maybe some ancestor of the Vikings, or the kingdom of Mog had some sort of presence here. Where do we draw the line?
Fact is, I was born a Canadian, I am a native of this land and this is my home. Fact is that Canada is the only recognized nation that occupies the part of the map labeled “Canada” and we’d be crazy to take a page from the Middle East and start carving up countries within countries like the Natives ultimately want.
And fact is: I respect any disagreement that you may have with me up to this point but it does NOT excuse any terrorist, embezzlement or other illegal activities that steal or injure other members of society!
Posted on 20-Jan-08 at 1:06 pm | Permalink
dalton wrote:
“if we follow the logic that the current natives alive today are entitled to all the land they got ripped off on…”
Hi, Matthew. I think you must have missed my preceding question, which impacts directly on the common error you’re making here.
Canada has entered into a number of treaties and Land Claims with First Nations. Those agreements are contracts which permit Canada to cross, occupy, develop, generate revenue from, and generally use that land according to the terms of the treaties or claim.
The British Crown recognized that principle and negotiated on that basis. Canada has recognized that principle and negotiated on that basis. The United Nations has recognized that principle.
You seem to be proposing that Canada suddenly and unilaterally default on the deal, abrogate all its contracts, treaties and Claims Agreements, and seize First Nation and Inuit lands against all law and precedent. Is that correct? Is that what you’re advocating?
Posted on 20-Jan-08 at 2:05 pm | Permalink
dalton wrote:
“We’d be crazy to take a page from the Middle East and start carving up countries within countries like the Natives ultimately want.”
I think you’re a bit confused here. What “natives” want is for Canada to honour the terms of their treaties, and to complete negotiation of Claims…not to carve separate countries out of Canada. May I respectfully suggest you consult the recent reports by Justice Thomas Berger on the Government’s failure to implement the Nunavut Claim, or the Auditor General’s Report on Canada’s failure to honour its implementation responsibilities, or the Pricewaterhouse Cooper assessment of Canada’s breach of its own guidelines for Claims implementation (all of which are available on the INAC website)?
All three documents have excellent background material on the legal and constitutional nature of a Land Claim that may help clarify some of this for you.
Posted on 20-Jan-08 at 2:11 pm | Permalink
Canadian Hitler wrote:
It is crazy that white people make agreements and base there countrys on agreements but then fail to honor the agreements and treaties. Why should the native people let immigrants squat on land that is un-paid for? Then you have immigrants whom wonder why the natives want there land back, because of these immigrant terrorists land launder at the expense of the Native people for the purpose of economic terrorism. Canada is the worst country in the world for economic terrorism. They have Immigrants comming in from all over the world and they vote on Native issues in Canada when they arnt even from here. Canada is only good if you own a resource company stealing from the native people.
Bring in armys. It doesnt matter, 70% of canadian army rangers is native, and the USA, 250 thousand native soldiers.
The only way to define if you are truly North American, is if your DNA is north american, in which most of you are not. If your born here from immigrant parents, it means your a immigrant squatter with some hyphon infront of your official citizanship.
Posted on 28-Jan-08 at 10:57 am | Permalink
Anna wrote:
instead of shooting off your mouths…I invite everyone one of yous to come and live UNDER OUR 3RD WORLD CONDITIONS including acuiring our HEALTH CONDITIONS…..RIGHT NOW…….call me… you can start with …NO RUNNING WATER…LIVE IN SHACKS……OUTSIDE TOILETS…
Posted on 28-Jan-08 at 11:32 am | Permalink
Ron Allen(LYNXLEG) wrote:
As Ive seen On many blogs on Native Concerns
there is rampant racism and ignorance with the canadian population. Just once i would like to see a informed comment from someone who actually has researched or bothered to actually learn what the hell there blabbing about.
Posted on 30-Jan-08 at 11:53 am | Permalink