Fiction versus Non-Fiction Debate Resolved
January 13, 2008 · By Aaron Unruh
Stop the presses! Commenter Bob takes us to school:
I have read the entire Bible (a work of largely fiction, not to be confused with non-fiction like Origin of the Species).
With that settled once and for all, we can now move on to boring old professors who grow mustaches out of their nostrils. Stylin’!
Associate Professor Myers has a big stylized “A” on the sidebar of his blog. Sigh. When will these anti-creative clueless drones ever learn?
Thanks for highlighting my quote, man. I stand by it entirely.
In fact, I’ll go a step further and say it’d be dead simple to *prove* that much of the Bible is fiction.
Just for one example, anyone who believes that Noah’s Ark is a true story hasn’t even begun to consider it’s plausability.
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-noahs-ark.html
I challenge anyone to read the article above and come away believing the story is anything but fiction. To continue believing it at that point is nothing less than intellectual dishonesty.
As for talking serpents tempting Adam and Eve and humankind getting cursed as a result. Hilarious!!
Okay, Monkey Boy.
P.S. If your arguments in response to ours never amount to any more than making fun of PZ’s beard, well, you’re really not winning the debate are you?
I guess in that sense, there is hope for humanity. More and more folks are starting to see through these transparently flimsy arguments from Biblical literalists.
I know I did: I used to be a Fundamentalist Baptist Christian.
So, rather than actually have a debate, Aaron, you simply chose to run off to try and protect your delusions by spouting a few childish and petty insults.
You are not only intellectually dishonest. You are a coward.
“Okay, Monkey Boy.”
Again. No argument. Just a cliched ad hominem attack.
You need to work on your schtick.
Seriously though. Give the article are read. (Hell, read that whole site.) I’d love to have you come over to our side. We’re actually a nice lot when you get to know us.
Goodness, the earnestness is painful. Debate? Argument? Delusions? Intellectually dishonest? I’m getting right miffed at Matthew for provoking this “Revenge of The Nerds” invasion in our combox.
Hey Aaron, check this guy’s link out; under point number 1, first sentence: “Wood is not the best material for shipbuilding” — apparently Columbus was a myth (probably crafted up by the Catholic Church, naturally!). I guess the science behind wood floating (hey kids, even you can do this in your bathroom lab; just fill the sink up with water and put a piece of wood in, see what happens!) should be taken with a strictly 15th century interpretation since modern science discredits that now. Till tomorrow…cheers!
“I’m getting right miffed at Matthew for provoking this “Revenge of The Nerds†invasion in our combox.”
Hey, I didn’t intend this to become the Militant Atheist Assoc. convention location. Blame the “professor”! Peace!
Sure, I’ll read the article. Problem is, I’m not a Biblical literalist. Most Christians aren’t. Now, you didn’t hear that from Richard Dawkins or Professor Myers, so you might not think it’s true.
You know what is fun? People invading our comboxes to claim with religious zeal that they are fundamentally opposed to religious zeal.
Oh that’s fine; you don’t need to be religious to enjoy the deliciousness of Bob’s *proof* right from the get-go.
“Problem is, I’m not a Biblical literalist.”
So, you admit the Bible’s fiction. Cool. We have no argument then.
Are doctor’s who are passionate about fighting cancer religious zealots, too?
Sorry Matthew, that was a response to Bob. What link were you talking about in your comment?
What commie Bob doesn’t understand is this: there is proven archeological sites indicating that at least some stories in the bible are highly likely to be true. Meanwhile, the origin of the species is but theory, not proven but merely conjecture.
“So, you admit the Bible’s fiction. Cool. We have no argument then.”
Cool indeed! The Bible is really just another Judy Blume novel. Unfortunately, most university professors that don’t study zebrafish and wax their nostril hair would disagree with this statement. But I am glad that you have no argument with me because I sensed that you were on the verge of utterly destroying me.
“Are doctor’s who are passionate about fighting cancer religious zealots, too?”
Yes, those bastards. Keep them away from my kids.
Hey Aaron, he links to it in comment #1 of this post.
Now, I’m a commie, too! Wonderful.
BTW, I’m not the Bob in #4. I haven’t called anyone any names. Tho Bob #4 may have a point.
However, Real Conservative, you do not. I never said every single detail in the Bible was fictitious. Many of the stories clearly are tho. Just because the White House appears in Mars Attacks! doesn’t make it non-fiction, tho.
And, hey, I believe Jesus existed, too. But that doesn’t mean the details of his story is accurate. They clearly ain’t. There are too many contradiction in the New Testament for them all to be accurate.
“Meanwhile, the origin of the species is but theory, not proven but merely conjecture.”
Boy, that’s an old argument. Haven’t you read the endless rebuttals against the “just a theory” argument already?
I’m also a nerd. And “earnest.” Is everyone who demands that you hold up your end of an argument “earnest”? As for nerd, that’s cool. Whatever.
Nerdy, commie monkey. Who can defend his beliefs. And honestly knows yours inside out. (I earned 2 degrees from Bob Jones University.) You can’t say the same.
Hey, you might be nice guys in “real life.” I dunno. But you need to sit down for a good long while and ask yourselves what it means to be intellectually honest.
For one thing, it means being willing to question your own beliefs to see whether they hold water. I don’t see a lot of that going on here.
Cheers.
“apparently Columbus was a myth”
You really do enjoy taking things out of context, don’t you?
TalkOrigins isn’t dismissing the idea that wood floats; it’s pointing out that even modern shipbuilding can’t build wooden ships much more than 300 feet long, two thirds the length of the Ark. The ships simply can’t take the strain without starting to leak.
The Santa Maria, on the other hand, was the largest of Columbus’s ships, and it was 70 feet long. No problem there.
The greatest problem with Christianity [and I'll admit to "problem" being a subjective term], is that it has not allowed the concept of the separation of faith and reason. To a certain extent, this issue plagues Islam as well. But what allowed the cultural renaissance to take place in Europe was that admission that religion and science are entirely separate entities.
We may understand how the world works from a scientific standpoint, but we can never prove, or disprove, the existence of a God. It is better, therefore, to allow that separation to remain pure in all of our endeavours. We may use scientific, mathematical, and philosophical reasoning, and still believe in a God. That is not an internal conflict, but merely a separation of what can be considered “faith”, and the reasoning of human logic and intelligence.
Human logic and intellect tells us that from the science we know and understand, evolution is real. Evolution, geology, biology, radiology, and pretty much any scientific and mathematical formula will tell us that the world appears to be roughly 4.5 billion years old, and the Universe about three times that amount.
That doesn’t mean God doesn’t exist. Holding two apparently contradictory beliefs in one’s head does not disprove one or the other. Charles Darwin also believed in God, and despite his theories, he continued to hope he was wrong until the time of his death. Not only that, whether or not we believe in evolution or the massive and overwhelming scientific evidence of the planetary creation through the nebulous formation of the solar system and the expansion of the Universe, it does not mean there is no deity.
Humans are imperfect, thus we can never know for certain the mysteries of the Universe. It would be presumptuous, therefore, to assume we know for certain there is no God. I will therefore leave my reason to reasoning, and faith to the faithful.
Howzabout - God created evolution. End of story.
Sheesh this is an annoying argument…
Jesus Christ! When will thepolitic be about politics again? Anyone?
*crickets chirping*
“When will the politic be about politics again?”
I sort of subscribe to the posting philosophy that whatever annoys you must be serving a greater good.
Q: “Jesus Christ! When will thepolitic be about politics again? Anyone?”
Bueller?
A: Unfortunately, religion and politics are increasingly intertwined these days.
“A: Unfortunately, religion and politics are increasingly intertwined these days.”
You’ve given me a great idea for my next post thanks! By the way, when we neo-con Christian Theocrats complete our plans for world domination, we promise to let you keep posting here.
Deal?
Thanks, Marsilio. Awfully generous of you. :)
No worries, tho. We won’t let your nefarious plans get to that point.
Seriously, tho: I’m not the enemy, man. I truly believe we’re all in this crazy experiment together. We just need to understand that and be open to dialogue.
Real Conservative wrote:
What commie Bob doesn’t understand is
Commie Bob? Are you one of those Boomers who thinks that time stopped in 1959? Zheesh, how lame.
this: there is proven archeological sites indicating that at least some stories in the bible are highly likely to be true.
Which lead to this:
Meanwhile, the origin of the species is but theory, not proven but merely conjecture.
Because no one has ever dug anything up that resembled past life? Ok…
“Okay, Monkey Boy.”
oh, i think i’m gonna have some fun over here….
KEvron
ps, “cunt”.
most university professors that don’t study zebrafish and wax their nostril hair would disagree with this statement.
suggest you look up Hector Avalos, little attack terrier, if you really wish to find out what actual biblical scholars have to say about what evidence supports the stories you find in the babble.
denial is an ugly thing.
Hello…hello everyone…K-K-Kevron is thinking about having some fun over here…oh look! he dropped the C-word, you crazy guy you…you…you…K-K-Kevron you…maybe try jumping up and down, waving your arms…how about yelling…screaming…setting your hair on fire…running around the room with skizzors?…and yet…
*crickets chirping*
lol!