Canada as a Secular State: Never was, Never will be
December 11, 2007 · By Aaron Unruh
How does one even begin to respond to this? In a nation founded as a joint project between Catholics and Protestants and where class has never counted for much in politics or anywhere else (see the permanently second-rate status of the NDP), workers unions are now demanding that crosses be banned from public view in response to a new set of immigrants and their “burqas, niqabs and chadors.”
The secular state? Give me a break. Let us hope that Canada will eventually muster the courage to ship both burqas and these quaint notions of a secular state back to the foreign lands from which they came.
[...] December 12, 2007 in Uncategorized Reply to the thepolitic.com, “Canada as a Secular State: Never was, Never will be“. [...]
Is secularism really the issue, or is it atheism?
Reply to the thepolitic.com, “Canada as a Secular State: Never was, Never will be”.
It seems to me that people that argue for a secular state are in fact arguing for a atheistic state. For me a secular state has always meant no one religion rules over another. That is why a country like Canada that was founded by Catholics and Protestants, has a long history of thinking of it self as ’secular’.
If people really wanted to fight this move to “secularism”, we need to start calling it what it is and that is ‘Atheism’. We need to remember that the way it is said is just as important as what we are saying. The notion that we are a “secular state” is to deeply rooted to be fought. To that end the fight is about what a “secular state” is. We have the upper hand in that fight and we should not give it away by arguing against a “secular state”.
Which is the stronger argument when dealing with people that are not very religious.
1. Canada has always been a religious country and should stay that way.
2. If Canada is truly a secular state that believes in equal rights, then people should have no need to hide their religion.
Going with the second option also allows you to move right into pointing out that what these people really want is atheism. A country devoid of any religion outside of a person’s home. I think almost everyone can see that is not the kind of country we want.
This is entirely due to anti-Muslim hysteria; crosses barely enter into it, except as collateral damage.
The moochers and takers of our society are the main proponents of the secular state. They feel that God is obsolete and should be replaced by the state. These are the same people who feet that there was no need for a father in the family and replaced his present with the state. The state provides the income and the state provides for daycare and the state provides for the disciplining the children and the state provides for …..
Secularism is a religion that assumes man is greater than God and can thus do away with Him. The spirituality of it is that there is no need for a spiritual being as long as the state is the omnipresent provider.
The problem with this is evidenced in Sweden where there is a higher rate of suicide than in non-socilaist counries There, people have a void in their life both spiritual and intellectually. Looked after from crib to grave is like living at home till you die. Where is the incentive to explore and expand your limits in the metaphysical world?
Secularism is definitely for the moochers and takers since it legitimises their living off others.
Fiumara,
Get your facts straight. The suicide rate in Sweden is barely higher (13.2/100k) than in Canada (11.6) or the US (11.0). Meanwhile Japan is at 24.0, Hong Kong 18.6, Austria 16.9, etc. Also you are confusing socialism with atheism – many countries are both socialist and religious.
Aaron,
Ship the burqas back where they came from? Disgusting. Don’t get me wrong, I think the idea is silly and unconstitutional. Canada is, by definition, a secular state:
secularism – The view that religious considerations should be excluded from civil affairs or public education.
However, individuals have the right to keep their faith, as far as the requirements do not conflict with Canadian law. The question is well-settled already – this is reactionary silliness.
Don’t confuse secularism with atheism. It is possible to have a religious AND secular state.
I think that until to be secualar doesn’t mean the outright expulsion of religion from the country, however, it does mean that in no way can a governing body impose religious content on residents of the secualr country. I personally always feel a slight discomfort asking God to keep our land strong and free. My objection is not rooted in denying religious people the right to practice their religion, and in no way is that an option. Being said, I also have a right to not have to sing a national anthem that requests that a space being, with no actual provable evidence of his/her existence help to protect our country. OK, we say God in the anthem, but lets be honest, Canada is probably more christian than Jewish, and does anyone really believe that thier god is going to support nationalism. In what sense does Jesus ever say that Nationalism is something that he supports? I have yet to find anywhere where that is stated. “However, individuals have the right to keep their faith, as far as the requirements do not conflict with Canadian law. The question is well-settled already – this is reactionary silliness.”. I don’t think so, I believe that yes, individuals have the right to keep their faith, but the problem here is with our nation being represented by religious terminology to the rest of the world. Individuals have the right to attend church, pray before dinner, even knock on my door, and offer to show me the way. I also have a right to attend Rememberance day celebrations, and feel the joy of the day without the momentary cringe when we all sing about god in the anthem. I won’t get into the reality of religion, but hopfully people will see that secularizing the country means taking religion out of government (as a body), not setting up aethiest camps to educate creationists.
When we speak of Canadian immigrants we really are referring to new Canadians which we have decided to welcome and label equal to all existing and original Canadians. If we expect these new Canadians from all diverse religious beliefs not to apply the same rights we “Original Canadians” have for advicating our religious beliefs in our Country, then eiter we stop accepting immigrants as equal Canadians and we tell them the truth that they are Canadians but not really Canadians. Or we simply accept that Canada has adopted a global immigration policy which the price to pay is that the answer to equality for all Canadians is Secularism.
As an atheist (or strong agnostic if you want to get technical) I feel that Canada should be a secular state and if it wishes to follow a democratic form of government then it should be. I personally don’t care if religous symbols can be seen across the street from a church or a temple or mosque or whatever. Religion becomes intrusive when it is placed as arbiter over everyone without their consent. This small article just seems to be an outburst against ridiculous political correctness and fear of Islam encroaching on Canadian identity.
To me secularism is not about atheism, it is about fairness and tolerance. Yes Canada was founded by men raised in a Christian culture. They where wise enough not to let their own religous opinions to become law of the land (same goes for the American revolutionaries earlier).
The reason why Canada is a secular state and will remain a secular state is that again and again it has been proven historically that religious laws and doctrines are made for the benefit of a certain group and almost always leads to bronze age dictatorships(Iran, Syria, Libya etc.) This has led to the creation of moderates who in reality do nothing but pick and choose the doctrines they like out of the religion and in short have the cake and eat it too.
A secular state simply means the state cannot make any preference in action based on religious doctrine. It differs from an Atheistic state in that free practice of religion is still conducted.
As for Islam, this terrifying religion simply represents the new immigrants searching for hope and prosperity same as the Catholics and their equally terrifying religion.
Canada needs to put its own first amendment in writing as to not let hatred and bigotry fueled by religious fervor flourish.