Now to wait and see what the review consists of, and how sharp are its teeth. And how many representatives from police unions and the shadowy American taser corporations are invited to give “input” (Hey, maybe we can hear from more industry-sponsored experts on how tasers are “completely harmless”!).
Meanwhile, Stephane Dion lends his weighty intellect to the cause:
Liberal Leader Stéphane Dion said he hadn’t seen the video, but [nevertheless] wants the Mounties to review their use of the weapon…
Mr. Dion asked other Liberals at a news conference if they’d seen the video.
“I didn’t. Did you see it, Keith?†said Mr. Dion, turning to Victoria-area MP Keith Martin.
“No,†Martin replied.
Sentinel wrote:
I see. Well, if this “less lethal” use of force tool is removed from the police’s response options, I sure hope that all those in favour keep in mind that the use of physical strikes, pepperspray, and hard strike impact waepons will increase, as will injuries to both police and especially the public, and will likewise be similarly supportive of those statistics.
It’s unfortunate that the public has no concept or training in use of force, yet are so “capably” able to criticize it!
Posted on 15-Nov-07 at 5:09 pm | Permalink
Raphael Alexander wrote:
Let’s not lose sight of the issue here. It isn’t that we should ban the taser. It’s that it took 20 seconds before the RCMP tasered the man. Negotiation with an unarmed man should take slightly longer than that.
Posted on 15-Nov-07 at 5:24 pm | Permalink
Lord Kitchener’s Own wrote:
Indeed Raphael,
Negotiation with an unarmed man isolated in a room by himself surrounded by four police officers, and who’s only acts of “violence” were against inanimate objects and BEFORE the police even arrived on the scene, should take EXPONENTIALLY longer than 20 seconds.
As for the public’s concept of the police’s training in the use of force, if such training involves tasering a man who’s been confined to a room for 10 hours essentially away from the public and then surrounded by police, who has not been violent or even really threatening towards any PEOPLE, is unarmed (having deboarded a plane, and not yet left the secure area of the airport) and who furthermore does not speak English is an example of how police are trained to use tasers, then I’ll take the criticism of the public over any rationalizations that may or may not come forward from the RCMP. When the man was holding a small table in his hands a female civilian felt safe enough to walk right up to him and try to calm him down. When he’s surrounded by cops and backing away, they taser him.
If this is how the police are being trained to use tasers, it seems clear to me that we need to ban them outright until the force can be COMPLETELY retrained, at the very least.
Posted on 15-Nov-07 at 6:22 pm | Permalink
Manuel wrote:
Yes their are incidents where tasers should not have been used, but seriously try taking down a 300 lbs guy whos high on PCP, as a matter of fact move it into a confined space while were at it so you can’t turn tale and run like a screaming little girl.
Posted on 15-Nov-07 at 7:21 pm | Permalink
Raphael Alexander wrote:
Manuel, this is called a strawman argument. We’re discussing a case in which an innocent man was murdered [by manslaughter admittedly] and you introduce the irrelevant point of PCP addicts. It is neither here nor there to the discussion.
Posted on 15-Nov-07 at 11:14 pm | Permalink
Sentinel wrote:
You are the police - you get a call about a fella attempting to barricade himself inside the customs hall at an airport. He’s throwing objects about and no one seems able to communicate with him since he speaks no English, which means you can’t talk to him either. He won’t come out of the door. It appears that he may not be in his right mind. Having that information in mind you arrive and approach. He backs away from you. You know nothing about the man - where he’s from and how his culture reacts to law enforcement, what meds he may or not be on, what illicit drugs he may or may not have in his system, what mental afflictions he may be suffering from, how much he had to drink on the plane. Since he is APPARENTLY UNARMED, you have the choice of using contact force to apprehend him (which may result in injuries to both parties - especially if he is concealing a weapon and produces it for use) or your pepper spray (which may not work on up to 10% of persons and will likely contaminate the entire area for some time) your baton is not an option unless he attacks you, then there is your taser, which is quick and effective as you have seen used in demonstrations on fellow police officers in your training. It is also able to be used from a distance without the risks of physical contact.
I know what my choice would be, but then, that’s the benefit of being trained.
Posted on 19-Nov-07 at 4:42 am | Permalink
Raphael Alexander wrote:
Sentinel if you think the cops made the right choice, you’d be facing charges and unemployment like these ones. Clearly the police made a horrific choice of poor judgment.
And 99% of Canadians know it, all across partisan lines. If you want to be in the 1%, go ahead. Nobody else is proud of a four on one situation in which the cops broke three rules of taser engagement, and then refused to administer CPR, leaving the man to die in cold blood.
Disgusting.
Posted on 19-Nov-07 at 4:07 pm | Permalink
disgusted wrote:
Sentinel
The problem you appear to have, like a lot of other people in law enforcement, is an inablility to think of any options that do NOT include violent force in every situation you encounter. You obviously need some better training in non-violent crisis intervention.
Besides the obvious truth that there are some stupid laws that are impossible to enforce - I guess the propensity to violence increases with exposure to violence. But surely four policemen, armed with guns, should be able to stage a stand-off, at least long enough to find out a little bit about a suspect’s history.
Pritchard, the bystander who took the video of this shameful display of horrible and completely unnecessary torture to death, has said that a woman bystander was not afraid to approach Mr. Dziekanski and try to calm him down before the RCMP arrived. He was, as anyone can see in the video, apparently relieved and hopeful of finally getting some civil attention. Perhaps he became frustrated with the computer because it didn’t provide him any tranlating assistance. He was probably hoping the police were intelligent enough to realize he and they needed a translator. Even if he could speak English, I guess cowardly cops like you would still think violent force was necessary, just because he damaged some airport property.
You used the phrase “not in his right mind” - I think it’s quite obvious which people in that scene were really not in their right minds - the people that think owning a Taser, gives them some magical right of power to expect instant obedience to very bad-mannered commands, as if no one except people wearing police uniforms, possess human rights and dignity worthy of respect.
Yes - if Tasers were banned, then some police might actually get hurt using hand-to-hand tactics, batons, or whatever. Shucks - do you really think the rest of us don’t sometimes get hurt too? What about autistic or conduct-disordered children, their mothers and fathers, teachers and nurses?
I’m a teacher, and I’ve seen caring professionals struck, scratched, and bitten. I’m sick of hearing police whine about drugs like PCP, and myths of “superhuman” strength or “excited delerium”. You have guns to use if someone is really attacking you - if you’re that afraid of getting a little spit on your face, or blood on your hands, then get out of your uniform.
Posted on 11-Feb-08 at 11:33 pm | Permalink