If you are like me, you will be sick. Robert Dziekanski spent his last moments in agony, courtesy of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police. No wonder they attempted to suppress this tape.
Less than ten seconds after walking up to the man, he was tased. The lesson is therefore that four RCMP officers considered themselves unable to subdue a single man without resorting to tasing him. One can be heard saying, “Got your taser ready?” as they walked into the room, before even seeing the man or assessing the situation. If you can think of a shorter way to write an abdication of an RCMP officer’s duty, I’d like to see it.
The situation is sickening. Dziekanski didn’t speak English. He’d been held as a prisoner for ten hours. The ridiculous security guards repeated, “He only speaks Russian,” constantly. In fact, a woman had asked Dziekanski if he spoke Russian and he shook his head “no.” Perhaps security guards at Vancouver International Airport should be given training on what shaking one’s head in a horizontal direction generally indicates.
Enough. Canada does not and has never needed these vile instruments, whatever excuses Canada’s assorted police unions are currently patronizing us with. It’s within the authority of the federal government to ban their use. Let Stockwell Day watch this video, hold his lunch down, and then do so.
AND: Considering that Canadian police have murdered a Polish citizen, why is the government of Poland not now raising hell?
AND: Robert Dziekanski, meet Ian Bush.
AND:
Look at it this way: if the same cops had approached the guy and immediately started kicking the shit out of him, 3 on 1, it would be considered unacceptably savage. A taser can (obviously) be more deadly than a shitkicking, but because it’s small and quick, somehow it gets lost that this is exactly what they’re doing when they employ that kind of force.
AND the worst of all:
The video is hard to watch. It has four brawny men going up to a clearly petrified man who’s suffering an anxiety attack. He even seems to welcome them by saying Polizei, Polizei - perhaps mistakenly believing that they are coming to his help. They zap him twice and sit on his neck.
Sylvia wrote:
Yes, I totally agree with what you’re saying. I think Stockwell Day should be alone in an airport for 10 hours where nobody helps him and nobody speaks English. After 10 hours, he’ll probably start getting frustrated and want some answers. People around him are saying “ya, I think he speaks Spanish. He needs a Spanish interrupter” and you’re being filmed by someone like you’re a caged animal.
I want someone to translate what Robert Dziekanski was saying in that video. What was he telling people in Polish just moments before his death?
Posted on 15-Nov-07 at 2:10 am | Permalink
Dr.Dawg wrote:
Just bye the bye, I find it interesting that, on the subject of unruly police, there is a convergence between left civil liberties thinking and conservative libertarian thinking. Good post, Aaron.
Posted on 15-Nov-07 at 6:36 am | Permalink
jcl wrote:
Sylvia,
Other that a blatant swipe at the Conservatives, what does Stockwell Day have to do with this incident? I mean sure, it’s his portfolio, but how can you bring his name up in this? Was he in the background there somewhere ordering these goons to do this?
JCL
Posted on 15-Nov-07 at 8:39 am | Permalink
jmorrison wrote:
ban tasers. if you are a cop and are unable to control one man who is unarmed you should not be a cop.
Posted on 15-Nov-07 at 8:55 am | Permalink
Rick in BC wrote:
The problem isn’t the taser, it’s the power-hungry maniacs wearing the uniforms. We need to know what the RCMP will do to keep people out of the force like the two revealed here - the one using the taser and the one who approved it before even seeing the fellow.
Given that these incompetents have made it into the force somehow, then they deserve a greater penalty than would be received by the average citizen committing a similar crime - manslaughter in this case. That is because it is also a breach of the public trust, and ultimately that is even more serious than the death of one helpless individual.
Posted on 15-Nov-07 at 9:18 am | Permalink
SIck of Tory Ranting wrote:
Good post, Aaron. I’ve never been a fan of the Alberta Agenda, but the kind of crap we’ve seen from the RCMP is starting to make me think that an Alberta provincial police force may not be such a bad idea. Could they do any worse than the RCMP?
Posted on 15-Nov-07 at 10:29 am | Permalink
Sylvia wrote:
jcl:
Aaron gave the opinion in his post that Day should sit down and watch this video, but I went a bit further in my post recommending that he actually experience what Dziekanski went through in the final moments of life.
We don’t need tasers. Cops were doing just fine without them decades before. They haven’t proven to greatly benefit the public or the police. It only promotes lazy police work and trigger happy cops that think tasers are the answers to everything.
Stockwell Day can take a stand on this issue and REALLY look at the use of tasers by police in Canada. How many more deaths, similar to Dziekanski, have happened in Canada. I think he definitely has a role to play in this issue.
Posted on 15-Nov-07 at 11:12 am | Permalink
June wrote:
What was so threatening on the ground by R.D.’s head that needed smashing by the R.C.M.P.?
Posted on 15-Nov-07 at 11:18 am | Permalink
Sylvia wrote:
jcl:
One more thing. My comment wasn’t intended to be a “blatant swipe at the Conservatives”. As a concerned citizen I demand better from our elected office. The demand for good government doesn’t stop when my preferred party is elected as the majority.
Posted on 15-Nov-07 at 11:22 am | Permalink
Sylvia wrote:
Good question June. That was a bit shocking when I say that too. There are so many unanswered questions from that video.
Posted on 15-Nov-07 at 11:24 am | Permalink
Simon wrote:
Aaron…I’ll deny it later of course…but for once I agree with you.Good post.
Posted on 15-Nov-07 at 12:26 pm | Permalink
MistahTibbs wrote:
It’s time to look a little more clearly at what’s on tape.
Tragic? Yes.
Premature or unnecessary use of the taser? A case could be made. But is there a case TO be made?
Brutal. Not really.
Mr. Dziekanski was clearly agitated and, perhaps, not himself. Add in the language barrier and there are certainly problems involved.
Additionally, Mr. Dziekanski was a large man. My guess? 5′ 10 maybe 6′ and easily 220 lbs. He’s already thrown a computer off a desk according to reports so there’s clearly potential for violence from the subject. Add to that as the officers are talking to him he throws up his hands and suddenly turns away.
It’s interesting how so many people think it’s a simple matter to subdue a person. It isn’t, especially when a person is actively resisting.
Apart from a possible premature usage of the taser everything those officers did was procedurally sound from what I could observe.
I believe I read somewhere that he was tasered twice. The thing is it appears he was only struck once and while he’s thrashing around on the ground crying out it doesn’t appear the taser is being discharged as there’s no sound that would correspond with that action. He’s crying out because of the initial hit. There doesn’t appear to be a second dishcarge of the taser.
What appears to have happened here is a language barrier created serious communications problems and it would appear with the stress Mr.Dziekanski was experiencing it made him succumb to some form of cardiac arrest. Has there been any information on whether or not he had a pre-existing condition?
All of these things have to be considered.
From observation of this tape (or at least what we were allowed to view) the actions of the officers were NOT out of line, although one could make a case for more attempts at dialogue before the taser there doesn’t appear to be any procedural issues.
Respectfully,
MT
Posted on 15-Nov-07 at 12:27 pm | Permalink
Don wrote:
I may be wrong, but I think that each RCMP detachment makes its own decisions on whether to deploy tasers. It’s not the RCMP in total that is at fault, nor the federal government. The Richmond RCMP, funded by the City of Richmond, employed deadly and excessive force. Those four officers should be held to account. And what about basic training for police officers - is no one trained anymore to take down an individual without using deadly force?
As well, how is it that YVR (Vancouver International Airport) is let off the hook so easily? One of their security guards is just watching the guy and doing nothing!
My understanding from the Vancouver Polish community is that Mr. Dziekanski’s mother was told by YVR that he had not arrived when she couldn’t find him (and this was hours after he had arrived). What kind of security do we have that an airport can’t confirm that a passenger was on flight X and arrived?
Too much criticism is being focused on the RCMP in general (I think it’s called “tarring with a wide brush”) rather on the officers involved, the Richmond RCMP detachment, and YVR personnel and YVR security. What does it say about YVR that an individual was left to wander about the airport for 10 hours who was obviously lost and getting increasingly agitated? YVR is not being scrutinized nearly enough for their role in this tragedy.
Posted on 15-Nov-07 at 12:43 pm | Permalink
MistahTibbs wrote:
Upon further observation there may, indeed, be a second shock from the taser. As for “four brawny men”, Mr. Dziekanski was clearly no lightweight himself. Additionally, it takes a lot of force to secure a non-compliant individual. Four officers is not out of line. As for “smashing” by Mr. Dziekanski’s head, I don’t see it. I see four officers attempting to secure a non-compliant individual.
For a point of reference, myself, a partner and a correctional officer took nearly 2 minutes to secure a non-compliant individual. This person was smaller and lighter than my partner who was about 5′9″ and 180 lbs. and had leg irons on. Don’t underestimate the amount of force required to subdue a noncompliant person. Whether they’re noncompliant out of anger, rage or fear.
respectfully,
MT
Posted on 15-Nov-07 at 1:01 pm | Permalink
Sylvia wrote:
I just want to say for the record that he did not thrown the computer like some deranged animal.
He picked up the computer and held it there for a couple of seconds then people started to shout “noooo, don’t do it” and then he put the computer down on the floor.
He WAS clearly agitated, but the cops behaviour towards him was unjust.
Posted on 15-Nov-07 at 1:10 pm | Permalink
MistahTibbs wrote:
Sylvia,
Not according to a rather sympathetic news report on Canoe.ca
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Cr.....17-cp.html
QUOTE ‘”He’s freaking out,” a bystander yells on the video as Dziekanski heaves a computer onto the floor.’ UNQUOTE
respectfully,
MT
Posted on 15-Nov-07 at 1:24 pm | Permalink
Reido wrote:
I have to agree with MT. There was no excessive use of force that I could see in the video, they tased him, got him down then used the standard physical methods to subdue the suspect who was exhibiting unstable mental characteristics. For those who have not experienced first hand the strength possessed by an individual who is on drugs, in a psychotic state or merely on an adrenalin rush, there is real danger to anyone attempting to subdue them. There is the commentary during this phase that he is still trying to fight them off. Bottom line, if you don’t want to be tasered, don’t break up the place and cooperate with the police. This incident is tragic yes, but where is the commentary assigning the blame where it rightly belongs, to the individual for his inappropriate behavior, his violent actions?
Posted on 15-Nov-07 at 1:43 pm | Permalink
Sylvia wrote:
Reido:
You’ve probably never experienced being somewhere where no one speaks your language. You’re totally ignored for 10 hours and you’re being treated like a criminal. You’re probably never going to be in a position like his because you speak English and pretty much everywhere on this planet there’s going to be someone that speaks that language. You’ll also be treated differently because you’re from Canada.
There wasn’t sufficient attempts made to communicate with him. I’m sure if someone in that terminal spoke Polish, this would have turned out differently.
Posted on 15-Nov-07 at 2:20 pm | Permalink
Lord Kitchener's Own wrote:
Thank God the video came out. The only credit I give the RCMP so far is that they didn’t destroy it.
Given what it shows, they must have been sorely tempted.
Posted on 15-Nov-07 at 3:57 pm | Permalink
MistahTibbs wrote:
Sylvia,
Respectfully, you’re not addressing the details of the tape. You’re dealing in emotions.
Lord Kitchen’s Own,
The tape shows NOTHING out of the ordinary. That may be hard to understand for people who may have never experienced a violent act in their lives but that’s a fact that officers deal with nearly every day.
Looking at the actions of the officers as a whole their procedures were within the bounds of normal operations for ANY police service. Additionally the taser comes BEFORE the baton and pepper spray in the circle of force options. General procedures are that the pepper spray and baton are for combative resistance while the taser is simply to produce compliance from a non-violent, non-compliant individual.
Additionally, people appear to have let customs & immigration off the hook completely. He was left for 10 hours in arrivals and even though his mother had arrived to pick him up c&i people didn’t bother to go look for him.
This is clearly a tragedy but the officers did nothing wrong and no amount of invective or fabrication of details or “feelings” about what happened are going to change things.
Police officers are there to enforce the law NOT hold your hand.
My take on this whole sad incident? The officers will be exonerated or at the very worst mildly reprimanded.
Respectfully,
MT
Posted on 15-Nov-07 at 4:34 pm | Permalink
Dr.Dawg wrote:
MT:
Are you watching the same video as the rest of us? The fellow was completely docile by the time the cops arrived. He put his hands in the air. It took them less than 30 seconds to Taser him, and the second segment shows one officer jabbing him repeatedly with what looks like a baton. Meanwhile another officer was putting his full body weight on the man’s back and neck.
Perhaps you would be kind enough to point out the frames in which Dziekanski is resisting.
Posted on 15-Nov-07 at 4:58 pm | Permalink
Horny Toad wrote:
There is plenty of blame to go around here.
First of all YVR. Have you ever tried to get information regarding someone arriving on a flight. My wife tried to find out if her 91 year old mother had arrived because we couldn’t find her at the airport.The airport(or airline-not sure where the problem arises) would not tell us anything. The woman is 91 years old for gods sake. In reading the taser incident the same thing happend to this man’s mother. She couldn’t find out anything.If she had been told that he had arrived she could have looked for him. But she went home thinking he hadn’t arrived. YVR is equally culpable her.
Secondly, I worked in a Forensic Psychiatirc institute which dealt with people like this every day. They simply get 4 or 5 people together and subdue those out of control.Seldom is anyone injured.They don’t even have a taser.This was 4 “cowboys” and they deserve to be charged with manslaughter.
As far as them following procedure did you watch their actions after he had been taken down. Their body language was “well, there, he’s dead, that will teach him to cross us”. There was no attempt to revive him or even see if he was OK.
It was disgusting and dispicable and OH YEA, par for the course with the RCMP.
Horny Toad
Posted on 15-Nov-07 at 5:06 pm | Permalink
Aaron Unruh wrote:
“As far as them following procedure did you watch their actions after he had been taken down. Their body language was “well, there, he’s dead, that will teach him to cross usâ€. There was no attempt to revive him or even see if he was OK.”
RCMP officers are apparently no longer trained to perform CPR. Which leads one to wonder what they actually are trained to do, besides pull the trigger of a taser at the slightest provocation.
Posted on 15-Nov-07 at 5:24 pm | Permalink
MistahTibbs wrote:
Dr. Dawg,
Please understand that I’m not saying this poor man deserved to die or anything like that. This is a tragedy, pure and simple.
Compounded by communications problems, sitting in an airport in a strange country for 10 hours with NO help from C&I and his actions prior to the arrival of police. Just because a person is docile at the time the officers arrived does NOT mean they will remain so or will be compliant with officer’s demands. Additionally there is the issue of weapons that the officers have to consider.
His hands were in the air for a moment and then he turned away from the officers. I’m not being difficult here but can you indicate (time wise) in the canoe.ca video where on the tape the “jabbing” with a “baton” occurs? I just don’t see it.
As for the officer putting his weight on the back and neck of the man that is NOT out of line with an individual who is resisting. It assists with securing the person. You can see that once the officers move in after the tasering they are attempting to secure his arms and handcuff him.
Additionally you can hear Mr Dziekanski at around 2:37 STILL resisting AND his legs flailing to the left of the officers as they attempt to secure him.
Again, this is a tragedy. But the officer’s actions are NOT out of line with standard police procedures across this country.
Respectfully,
MT
Posted on 15-Nov-07 at 5:26 pm | Permalink
Aaron Unruh wrote:
“Looking at the actions of the officers as a whole their procedures were within the bounds of normal operations for ANY police service. Additionally the taser comes BEFORE the baton and pepper spray in the circle of force options. General procedures are that the pepper spray and baton are for combative resistance while the taser is simply to produce compliance from a non-violent, non-compliant individual.”
Isn’t this the problem? However did the police deal with “non-violent, non-compliant individuals” prior to the advent of the taser? They certainly did not pepper-spray or bash every person over the head with a baton when confronted by the behaviour exhibited by our deceased Polish visitor.
That’s why I think the quote from Unrepentant Old Hippie is quite good. We’ve been led to believe that tasers produce instant compliance with no negative by-products besides some short-term discomfort when the truth is is that being tased is far more dangerous than having the shit kicked out of you by four cops. The result of this myth for the police is that they are far more likely to simply pull out their taser then they would have been to pull out the baton or whatever. Instead of talking people down, for example, it’s just tase, lock and load.
Posted on 15-Nov-07 at 5:34 pm | Permalink
MistahTibbs wrote:
Horny Toad & Aaron,
Umm, are we watching the same video?
Once again, not trying to be a smartass here but the video I’ve watched on Canoe shows the officers having secured him and an officer on the right standing and securing something to the left side of his belt and the officers crouching or kneeling beside Mr. Dziekanski then it fades out. That’s it. Nothing else. Is it possible either of you may be projecting your own pre-conceived opinions of police officers on them. Honestly I don’t believe the video supports the suppositions expressed.
Unless there is more video than what I’ve witnessed and I’m willing to acknowledge that may be true.
Respectfully,
MT
Posted on 15-Nov-07 at 5:34 pm | Permalink
Aaron Unruh wrote:
To be fair, it is indeed possible that the officers engaged in CPR after the tape ends.
Posted on 15-Nov-07 at 5:37 pm | Permalink
just wondering wrote:
I don’t think it was the Taser.
I think it was the knee on the neck.
The Taser helped create the opportunity for what appears to be an inappropriate choke technique.
Posted on 15-Nov-07 at 5:38 pm | Permalink
Sylvia wrote:
I guess the following warning should be issued if this is “standard police procedures”:
If you or someone you know is traveling in the near future to a Canadian airport and you can’t speak English please be aware that if you require assistance chances are you will not be helped.
If you are held in the airport for 10 hours, this is not considered unusual. And if your loved one is trying to locate you in the airport, security will not be able to confirm your arrival.
But if you become agitated, frustrated and confused because you can’t communicate with anyone. The police might taser you, which may result in death.
Remember, don’t travel alone if you can’t speak English, this may result in your unfortunate death.
Posted on 15-Nov-07 at 5:41 pm | Permalink
Dr.Dawg wrote:
MT:
It’s in the second segment over at the Vancouver Sun. Time: 5:36.
Posted on 15-Nov-07 at 5:52 pm | Permalink
Celina wrote:
Methinks mistatibbs is not Sidney Poiter.
Nor an actor, except when on the stand.
Respectfully? Smells.
Posted on 15-Nov-07 at 7:26 pm | Permalink
Dr.Dawg wrote:
Sorry–here’s the link. Video segments on the right.
http://www.canada.com/vancouve.....p;k=32890#
Posted on 15-Nov-07 at 7:35 pm | Permalink
sg wrote:
For the record, I am an independent conservative thinking person, who supports our men and women who serve in our police forces,BUT on this one the RCMP messed up big time. Ask anyone with any military or legitimate martial arts trainig whether they and three of thier friends could have subdued this individual without threat to themselves or the Polish man. Of course the answer is yes. In my generation police officers served for 30 years and many never ever had to draw their weapons. The training and techniques needed to subdue individuals such as the one being discussed , has been around for decades. Police forces need to move forward and train there people on the methods available, which by the way don’t always innvolve the use of force.
Posted on 15-Nov-07 at 8:55 pm | Permalink
Reido wrote:
Actually, I have travelled extensively in the former Soviet Union and there is no English to be found outside of Moscow. That is why it is very important to have your papers in order. He should have had a Visa to Canada in his passport, http://www.embassymag.ca/html/.....uirements/
I would be interested if the reason he was held so long was that he did not have the appropriate documentation to enter Canada, possibly flying through a third country such as Germany where the Airline wouldn’t necessarily check for the Visa as they aren’t required for their citizens. And again, in some of the more “interesting” places I have travelled, I wouldn’t even think of being violent or resisting as a Tasering would be the least of my fears. As he lived during the Soviet period in Poland, Mr Dziekanski’s resistance to authority is extremely out of character, as without large amounts of alcohol, former East Blok citizenry are extremely docile, even following long waits and bureaucratic delays.
Posted on 15-Nov-07 at 10:02 pm | Permalink
Reido wrote:
And if he had presented a Polish passport, they would have known his nationality. Furthermore, all Polish schools from his era would have taught him Russian, so he would have been able to communicate in either of those languages. I stand by my earlier assumption that he was held for 10 hours because he didn’t have his documents in order, otherwise it is just a stamp in the passport and you are through the door.
Posted on 15-Nov-07 at 10:10 pm | Permalink
MistahTibbs wrote:
Dr. Dawg,
Thanks for the link. That Vancouver Sun vid is considerably cleaner and has more content than the one at canoe.
BTW. The officer on the right who appeared to be “jabbing” at the suspect’s head when he was already secured? It’s a perspective thing but that officer was collapsing his extendable baton using the concrete floor. Standard procedure.
It would appear in the third video at the VSun that the officers realize something is wrong fairly quickly(you hear the guy running the camera state the officers have called a “code red”) and they call for an ambulance. I’m assuming that as it’s difficult to tell with such a small video screen. Radio mics are at the shoulder and it appears they are calling.
The following link is an interesting article at Canoe about initial autopsy reports and includes comments from an emergency medicine specialist that, granted it’s from the day of the incident, may have some insight into what happened to Mr.Dziekanski.
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Ca.....93-cp.html
Ultimately, and this is just my opinion, but I think that the officers will be found to have moved to the taser too quickly but, that their actions were not outside the bounds of reasonable response to a potentially combative, hostile individual.
Hopefully when there’s a coroner’s inquest, very likely, we’ll discover how informed the officers were prior to arriving on scene, if there were any underlying illnesses or physiological defects Mr. Dziekanski may have had, if any, and what other’s role in this tragedy were. By others I’m referring to airport personnel, customs & immigration, etc. This situation is a lot more complex than what some are saying.
Respectfully,
MT
Posted on 15-Nov-07 at 11:03 pm | Permalink
john wrote:
1. It is a problem of immigration: why are allowed in immigrants who don’t utter a word of English? It’s absurd.
2. The mounties had to make a choice: a) we jump on him and they would say that police is beating up people or b) we taser him and there’s a 90% chance that he will be OK. Unfortunately he was among the other 10%.
Posted on 15-Nov-07 at 11:06 pm | Permalink
MistahTibbs wrote:
just wondering wrote:
QUOTE “I don’t think it was the Taser.
I think it was the knee on the neck.
The Taser helped create the opportunity for what appears to be an inappropriate choke technique.” UNQUOTE
jw. If the man was on his back and the knee/shin was at his throat, I’d agree. Officers are trained that once a suspect is grounded it is a legitimate technique to place your knee or shin across the side of the neck of a person who is prone with the face to the side to get them to comply with the demand to “give me your hands” when they are actively resisting. Now, if this officer put his knee at Mr.Dziekanski’s throat and not the side of his neck, then yes, there would be grounds for charges. THAT is an inappropriate technique. Downright dangerous.
Honestly, it doesn’t appear to be the case but, as I posted earlier, hopefully the coroner’s inquest will bring all information to light.
Respectfully,
MT
Posted on 15-Nov-07 at 11:13 pm | Permalink
MistahTibbs wrote:
John,
Some of my ancestors were Dutch. I don’t think they spoke any English. I’m glad they were let into this country.
Just saying.
Respectfully,
MT
Posted on 15-Nov-07 at 11:15 pm | Permalink
CJ wrote:
I live in Vancouver and have personally spoken to two eyewitnesses to the Dziedzanski death, one at considerable length. Everything they related to me has been borne out by what I have now seen in the video. There are some facts that some commenters here seem unaware of.
First, Dziedzanski’s size. He was about 5 foot 10 or 11 and a rather pudgy 190 pounds or so. He looked middle-aged and was not strongly or athletically built. All four police were larger than he was.
Second, the amount of time he was in the airport. He was there for at least 10 hours after being processed through customs.
Third, the “response” to telephone calls from the public to airport security and 911. This is extremely important, because there are actually two scandals here, the police incompetence and the joke that is YVR airport security. He was shouting and raving and breaking up a chair and a computer keyboard for two hours in the international arrivals area before police arrived. Airport “security” were nowhere in sight until a minute or two before the arrival of the four police, who came from outside the airport in four police cars that parked in front of the terminal arrivals level. They in turn arrived at least 45 minutes after at least two calls had been made to Richmond 911.
Dziedzanski had been in the arrivals area where people wait to meet people coming from customs. It was 1:00 am and customs was closed. He got into a supposedly secure area when a limousine driver with a key inadvertantly let him in. That driver was one of the people who called airport security and 911.
People at the scene thought Dziedzanski was mentally ill, but did not feel physically threatened by him. This can be seen in the early part of the LiveLeak video where a woman attempts to talk to him.
After two hours of noisemaking watched by a couple of dozen limo and taxi drivers and airport passengers, Dziedzanski was dead within one minute of the arrival of the police.
The people I talked to who witnessed this outrage are conservative, law and order working stiffs. They were both horrified by the event and very critical of the police and of the airport. Both of them also thought that the cause of death might not have been the taser, but simply too much applied to Dziedzinski’s back and neck as they were trying to handcuff him.
Posted on 16-Nov-07 at 12:15 am | Permalink
CJ wrote:
I live in Vancouver and have personally spoken to two eyewitnesses to the Dziedzanski death, one at considerable length. Everything they related to me has been borne out by what I have now seen in the video. There are some facts that some commenters here seem unaware of.
First, Dziedzanski’s size. He was about 5 foot 10 or 11 and a rather pudgy 190 pounds or so. He looked middle-aged and was not strongly or athletically built. All four police were larger than he was.
Second, the amount of time he was in the airport. He was there for at least 10 hours after being processed through customs.
Third, the “response” to telephone calls from the public to airport security and 911. This is extremely important, because there are actually two scandals here, the police incompetence and the joke that is YVR airport security. He was shouting and raving and breaking up a chair and a computer keyboard for two hours in the international arrivals area before police arrived. Airport “security” were nowhere in sight until a minute or two before the arrival of the four police, who came from outside the airport in four police cars that parked in front of the terminal arrivals level. They in turn arrived at least 45 minutes after at least two calls had been made to Richmond 911.
Dziedzanski had been in the arrivals area where people wait to meet people coming from customs. It was 1:00 am and customs was closed. He got into a supposedly secure area when a limousine driver with a key inadvertantly let him in. That driver was one of the people who called airport security and 911.
People at the scene thought Dziedzanski was mentally ill, but did not feel physically threatened by him. This can be seen in the early part of the LiveLeak video where a woman attempts to talk to him.
After two hours of noisemaking watched by a couple of dozen limo and taxi drivers and airport passengers, Dziedzanski was dead within one minute of the arrival of the police.
The people I talked to who witnessed this outrage are conservative, law and order working stiffs. They were both horrified by the event and very critical of the police and of the airport. Both of them also thought that the cause of death might not have been the taser, but simply too much force applied to Dziedzinski’s back and neck as they were trying to handcuff him.
Posted on 16-Nov-07 at 12:18 am | Permalink
Steven wrote:
The problem with this logic is it assumes the alternative (hand cuffing by force) is non-lethal. It isn’t. You are more likely to be harmed if an officer subdues you without a taser than with one. The problem is a certain percentage of those being subdued will violently resist and a certain percentage of those will result in a serious head injury, and that percentage is bigger than those who are permanently injured by tasering.
It’s the classic fear of sharks fallacy. When you ask north americans what animal is responsible for the most fatalities shark always pops up high on the list. In fact bees (which almost never shows up on the list) are responsible for the most deaths. Problem is when people hear about someone dying from a bee sting it is shrugged off as something that just happens to some people, but when someone gets attacked by a shark it is an event. Similarly, people shrug off when people die from hitting their head against a table in a fight, but pay attention when someone dies from a taser.
Does anyone deserve to die for creating a disturbance? Of course not. Nor does anyone deserve to die when crossing the street. But the reality is both situations have risk associated with them. The only way to figure out the proper way to deal with a situation is to look at all the data as a whole rather than focus on the single event.
Posted on 16-Nov-07 at 12:40 am | Permalink
Dr.Dawg wrote:
MT:
Thanks for the comment about the baton. Another commenter also noticed that he was trying to retract it. But as to the action of the cops as a whole, check out p.39 of this report:
5. What role does restraint play in sudden and unexpected death proximate to restraint?
Subjects who struggle with police are almost always restrained in a face-down position.
If subjects are pinned down with a great deal of weight placed on their shoulders and back for a long period of time it may hamper their ability to breathe rapidly enough.
This state of hypoventilation means the subject can still breathe, just not at the level their body requires to return to equilibrium.
Police may be misled by the fact the subject can still speak, indicating a clear airway, which does not necessarily mean they can breathe at an adequate rate.
Posted on 16-Nov-07 at 6:22 am | Permalink
MistahTibbs wrote:
Dr. Dawg,
Just reading your small repost from the study the conclusion isn’t unreasonable. That could very well be the consequence of that form of restraint.
I’m wondering if the short amount of time, at least according to the video that’s available, where an officer would have been over him in a similar manner to assist restraint was sufficient to cause this form of distress.
It would appear that the Taser is highly unlikely to cause death but that contributing factors are usually the cause in Taser death. ie: drugs, pre-existing health conditions, etc.
From what I’ve read in what’s been available Mr. Dziedzinski was relatively healthy. That still leaves a small window (though unlikely) that the Taser may have caused his death. Dr. Dawg. That study you referenced is very important.
A person in a highly agitated state, such as this poor man was, may have experienced that hyper-ventilation and become hypoxic.
Again, hopefully the coroner’s inquest will shed light on everything that occurred.
And again, apart from possibly pulling out the Taser and using it somewhat early (and I think a person may be able to make a reasonable case for that), what the officers did was within the bounds of police procedure to secure a non-compliant individual.
It may not be pretty but police work isn’t and it’s not a job for those who want to give the world a big hug and make the bad feelings go away.
Respectfully,
MT
Posted on 16-Nov-07 at 8:25 am | Permalink
sg wrote:
With all do respect to some of the comments, some of you live in a dream world, if think there are not sensible ways to subdue and handcuff a suspect without serious injury to the suspect and the officer. Phych ward nurses and aids restrain strong young men every day in our phychriactric hospitals and we don’t hear about them having to use tasers or lethal force.
Posted on 16-Nov-07 at 8:51 am | Permalink
Dr.Dawg wrote:
MT:
I’ve asked this before, and I’ll repeat–where are the frames showing non-compliance? The man was entirely docile when the cops arrived, until he ended up thrashing on the floor after being administered an electric shock–or two. There is no sign whatsoever on “non-compliance.”
Posted on 16-Nov-07 at 8:59 am | Permalink
MistahTibbs wrote:
sg,
The thing with psych wards is the nurses and orderlies are dealing with “known” individuals. There is history, both physical and mental, and ongoing contact with the patient. Additionally the orderlies usually only need to physically restrain long enough for someone to sedate the patient. A form of chemical “restraint.”
Police rarely have the luxury of knowing who they’re dealing with. Especially in an international airport.
Dr. Dawg,
Non-compliance doesn’t have to be violent it can simply be unco-operative. The language barrier was a big problem in this incident as I’ve mentioned in previous posts and before the police arrive it’s clear there is a problem with Mr. Dziedzinski as he appears highly agitated, somewhat aggresive (walking around with a table in his hands) and sweating a great deal.
The lack of co-operation by Mr. Dziedzinski was evident. Did he deserve to be Tasered? With the luxury of multiple viewings and the safety of not being the officer on scene I can say no but I don’t think that is a fair assessment.
If what CJ posted is correct there are so many other aspects of this incident that people are ignoring. The ridiculous wait time this man had to experience, the lack of co-operation from C&I when his mother was looking for him in the airport, and, again, if CJ is accurate, the officers arrived and immediately went to the location to secure this individual.
At this time we don’t know what information was given to the 911 call-takers and we don’t know what information was given to the officers involved.
I reiterate. Procedurally, the officers did nothing out of the ordinary. He didn’t comply with officer’s requests and officers Tasered him to make him compliant so that they could secure him for his and other’s safety so that they could find out what was going on.
Again, it’s not pretty but police work isn’t.
Respectfully,
MT
Posted on 16-Nov-07 at 9:23 am | Permalink
The Vancouver Taser Affair (2) « The Van Der Galiën Gazette wrote:
[…] links for more on this case are the Canadian blog The Politic which offers some terse commentary here and British Columbia’s key webzine The […]
Posted on 16-Nov-07 at 10:34 am | Permalink
Sylvia wrote:
Report find that police used EXCESSIVE force and did not follow the rules on how to use a taser:
Tasers should be used only against a subject who is actively resisting arrest or posing a risk to others, not someone who is “passively resisting.”
In this case, Dziekanski, who did not speak English, appeared not to be resisting, and there were no other people in the area who could be hurt by his actions.
- Officers should avoid shocking a subject multiple times.
Dziekanski was shocked twice within a matter of seconds.
- Following a Taser shock, a subject should be restrained in a way that allows him to breathe easily.
At one point, four officers were on top of Dziekanski. Two officers knelt with their full weight on his neck and back
Posted on 16-Nov-07 at 10:50 am | Permalink
Sylvia wrote:
Report finds that police used EXCESSIVE force and did not follow the rules on how to use a taser:
Tasers should be used only against a subject who is actively resisting arrest or posing a risk to others, not someone who is “passively resisting.”
In this case, Dziekanski, who did not speak English, appeared not to be resisting, and there were no other people in the area who could be hurt by his actions.
- Officers should avoid shocking a subject multiple times.
Dziekanski was shocked twice within a matter of seconds.
- Following a Taser shock, a subject should be restrained in a way that allows him to breathe easily.
At one point, four officers were on top of Dziekanski. Two officers knelt with their full weight on his neck and back
The Taser Technology Review Final Report states: “Subjects who struggle with police are almost always restrained in a face-down position. If subjects are pinned down with a great deal of weight placed on their shoulders and back for a long period of time it may hamper their ability to breathe rapidly enough.
Source: Vancouver SUN - “Mounties broke the rules set out for use of Tasers”
Posted on 16-Nov-07 at 10:52 am | Permalink
Sylvia wrote:
For all those who want to do something about this, but feel powerless - take this into consideration:
Check out this blog: http://justice4robertd.blogspot.com/ and write a letter to your MP.
Posted on 16-Nov-07 at 11:07 am | Permalink
Sylvia wrote:
There will be a candlelight vigil at Vancouver International airport tomorrow at 11:00pm.
More info: http://www.facebook.com/event......;ref=share
Posted on 16-Nov-07 at 12:23 pm | Permalink
BIlly wrote:
The event is at 11 AM, not PM.
Posted on 16-Nov-07 at 2:33 pm | Permalink
June wrote:
How about setting up a trust fund for this man’s mother who worked two jobs for seven straight years to bring her son to this country?
Posted on 16-Nov-07 at 7:31 pm | Permalink
June wrote:
Sorry, Sylvia; I didn’t realize this had already been done.
Posted on 16-Nov-07 at 7:36 pm | Permalink
Agnieszka wrote:
It is not too difficult to imagine the frustration and exhaustion of
the Polish immigrant arriving at the Vancouver airport and being unable to ask for help. However, it is beyond my comprehension that Mr. Dziekanski’s
mother who spoke English hadn’t received assistance while begging for help
trying to locate her son. Although the police are directly responsible
for the death of Mr. Dziekanski, YVR should also feel responsible for what had happened that night because this tragic situation could have been
avoided if any of the airport employees showed some care.
Posted on 16-Nov-07 at 9:47 pm | Permalink
Greg wrote:
This is really disturbing. The police tasered the poor guy without even trying to communicate with him, but what’s worse, once they realized there is no pulse, they did nothing and left him to die. To me this looks like a cold-blooded murder, and they should face the consequences. What happened with the police slogan “To serve and protect”?
Posted on 17-Nov-07 at 12:07 am | Permalink
Horny Toad wrote:
“Non-compliance doesn’t have to be violent it can simply be unco-operative”
And thus is exposed the utter arrogance of the police. Because he couldn’t speak English and follow their directions(whatever they may have been) they simply “tasered” him. Guess that’ll show him!!
Horny toad
Posted on 17-Nov-07 at 8:39 pm | Permalink
Peter wrote:
Fear, that is what killed one unarmed polish gentalman. The four rcmp officers are COWARDS.
Why do Americans need guns again? FEAR!. Rcmp officers in that ten minute tape seem to serve and protect themselves. Afraid of a little bump and grind,they taser him to death.
Smile, coffee, cookies, smile again, now their is some proud Canadian courage. One on one ???
Posted on 19-Nov-07 at 12:48 am | Permalink
sunny wrote:
well, we can’t tell how long he was tased or how many tasers. you can touch someone who is tasered as long as you don’t touch the taser. so he could have been under taser til his death. along with the illegal choke hold and the lack of cpr after code red announced. these guys didn’t care about just securing. they wanted it to hurt. also, i would have tried to communicate with body language or wait for interpreter. there are alot of different alternatives. it seems the cops already decided what they were going to do regardless of the victims future actions. i guess the same birds flock together and these guys are the bullies of rcmp.
Posted on 19-Nov-07 at 7:03 am | Permalink
Tom wrote:
Horny Toad is right on.
Firstly, I hope that as many people protest on Nov 24th and beat the cold weather.
As per HT, the airport staff from security guards to the people behind the information desk should be held responsible. They had a Polish translator (Robert’s own mother) in front of them but instead they decided to not admit ignorance and laziness by concluding without even trying to look for him that he never arrived. This caused his mother to leave one or two hours later.
The RCMP officers are clearly abusing their powers in the video. No one tries to calm him down (there are no hand motions of any sort while they already know he does not speak english). His only weapon which he never had with him was a stool. Obviously there are no weapons in a secure zone. I believe the person that talked to him before the RCMP arrived did a better job trying to communicate than the 4 cowboys that arrived afterwards.
Stockwell Day’s taser inquiry is just a smoke screen. As many people pointed out, the outcome of the inquiries is are known and I think irrelavent. The question is what happens to the people that abused these devices?
Also Day’s comments comparing the situation at the airport to drunk driving is idiotic at best. The two issues are just that, two separate issues. Each should be addressed. It’s just a diversion from the issue at hand.
Posted on 19-Nov-07 at 7:25 pm | Permalink
Joe wrote:
This murder could be avoided easily if the Airport staff responded diligently to Zofia Cisowski’s enquiry about her son’s arrival. They denied that he was still inside although they held him for ten hours, and they made no effort to connect Mother with the son.
Anybody concerned about language problems? Come on. Hundreds of travellers who do not speak English enter Canadian airports daily. Majority of them make similar arrangements as Zofia Cisowski did with her son. She came to pick him up at the airport. This arrangement should easily solve any difficulties created by language barrier. However, when Zofia asked repeatedly Airport’s staff about her missing son, she was given false answer that her son was not at the Airport. Come on. How on the Earth, the Airport staff could have any difficulty knowing that a person was still at the Airport. Obviously, they knew it. The flight arrived, and he was on the list of passengers. If he did not come out, it was obvious that he was still inside. They held him for ten hours, so it must be a reason for it, and somebody from the Airport’s staff must have kept record of Mr. Dziekanski being held there. Somebody must have monitored the progress of clearing issues that prevented Mr. Dziekanski to be allowed to come out of the passengers’ arrival gate and to meet with his Mother.
Russian, Russian… guessing game. Was it really so difficult for Security to know that he spoke Polish? Really? Every passenger has travel documents. The Airport is the easiest place on the Earth to figure out which language a traveller speaks. Just ask about the documents and you will know it instantly. Have Security or Police asked him about the documents? Have they asked about his ID the Airport’s staff who called the Police to help them out? Obviously they must have known whom they kept inside the Airport and for what reason. It looks like the order of events was not logical. They took deadly action first, and asked a question whom they killed afterwards. Were Security or four Police officers willing to communicate with Mr. Dziekanski at all? A woman-bystander did, but they did not. They knew that he spoke one of the foreign languages, and in this case it did not matter Russian or any other. The point was that they were just satisfied that he did not speak English to take so dangerous action on him. The only way of communication was to send him a double dose of high voltage electrical current merely few seconds after their arrival, and subsequently to finish their action by depriving a dying man from a gasp of air. Then, no reanimation for next eight minutes. Hmmm… What training have four Police officers had that prevented them from knowing obvious: one really does not need paramedics’ help after such period of time of no pulse and no breathing.
Medical problems? Maybe, but Mr. Dziekanski immigrated legally to Canada, therefore he had to have thorough medical examination that satisfied Canadian Embassy in Poland. It was done by Canadian (not Polish) standards in medical facilities that were designated by Canadian Embassy (Immigration Services) in Poland. If Canadian authorities in Poland said that Mr. Dziekanski was suitable medically to live in Canada based on their own set of medical examinations, it answers concerns of one of the posters above who wrote about possible physical or mental problems that Mr. Dziekanski could have suffered. Even if any physical or mental problems were there (diagnosed or not diagnosed), it should not be a justification for killing this man. After all, we do not kill Canadians who suffer from mental or physical problems, and there are unfortunately many of us with all kinds of medical issues.
Posted on 20-Nov-07 at 12:08 pm | Permalink
David wrote:
I am not some left wing longhaired hippie. I could probably be described as a rather dull staid person who tends to vote conservative. Normally I am supportive of the police… but this out rage has left me feeling absolutely sick and furious with the goons and thugs who seem to be appearing more and more in the ranks of police forces across Canada.
A few years ago I went on a trip to Latvia to visit a lady whom I had met earlier in Germany. Living in the north of Latvia she had planned to meet me at the airport in Riga. Not possessing a car she was going to travel by bus, but a heavy snowstorm had closed the roadways. Due to budgetary issues Latvia simply cannot afford the same sort of road maintenance that we take for granted in Canada. Undeterred and wanting to be self reliant I decided that I would still reach my destination by train. The communications system is also not perfect either and I had been unable to contact my lady friend to let her know that I would still come. Also I thought it would be pleasant to surprise her. :) I was unprepared for what happened next. Unable to read the signs (Latvian and Russian) and unable to find anyone who spoke English, I blundered around through the train station in confusion and cannot deny feeling bewildered. After about 2 hours of this I was beginning to wonder if it had all been a mistake to come. But then I was approached by a boy of about 12 and his father. I owe a debt of gratitude to this young fellow who although speaking only very little English he recognized that I was in an unpleasant situation. After figuring out where I wanted to go the boy and his father accompanied me to my train and as they were also going north they took the same train. Upon arrival at my destination they accompanied me to the address where I was met by by friend. This boy and his father were kind enough to help a stranger in need.
Would it have been so hard for the RCMP to do something similar? Robert Dziekanski only wanted some help. The very people whom he should have been able to look to for help instead took his life. Every cop in Canada but especially the RCMP should be ashamed.
Posted on 20-Nov-07 at 12:36 pm | Permalink
ThePolitic.com » “Robert Dziekanski only wanted some help.” wrote:
[…] the whole thing. This entry was written by Aaron Unruh and posted on Tue Nov 20, 2007 at 2:24 pm and filed under […]
Posted on 20-Nov-07 at 2:24 pm | Permalink
P. Hamilton wrote:
I’m not sure why almost every article is stating a “taser death” regarding Mr. Dziekanski’s unforgiveable treatment by four pathetic RCMP. It would be very interesting to learn what the Coroner’s autopsy report states. Most humans I am associated with do not appear to be built “strong” enough to withstand a large cop’s knee applied to their neck and or head with what appeared to be distinctly a great deal of pressure. What a travesty!! Did it really have to take four substantial looking RCMP to commit such an unforgiveable crime?? We as human beings need to sincerely re-consider our actions and attitudes toward each other before we become more inhumane than we already are!! Mr. Dziekanski was only looking to find his Mother, and all those people that had any contact with him all the hours that he looked, there was not one that took the trouble to help him in any way.
Posted on 22-Nov-07 at 1:20 am | Permalink
Bo wrote:
Upon carefully watching the longest version of the video, I cannot judge whether the RCMP acted appropriately or not.
It is clear that Mr. Dziekański was very hostile and aggressive prior to the arrival of RCMP officers. Mr. Dziekański forced custom workers to flee from their office. Mr. Dziekański then proceeded to destroy office equipment such as chairs and computers by throwing them against the window or slamming against the floor.
RCMP officers arrived and attempted to calm him down, and Mr. Dziekański appeared to back away while picking up an object (stapler?). Immediately after, he was tasered and fell to the ground, but Mr. Dziekański continued to resist arrest as additional tasering was administered.
It seems to me that Mr. Dziekański was definitely resisting arrest and threatened arresting officers. Whether or not police acted appropriately in response, I cannot judge because I am not familiar with RCMP procedures.
Had this happened in a post 9/11 AIRPORT in America, I sincerely believe Mr. Dziekański would have been met with far more severe force by the Police, National Guard troops, or airport security guards. What bothers me the most is that it took more than TEN minutes for RCMP to show up, regardless of the eventual outcome.
Posted on 23-Nov-07 at 3:35 pm | Permalink
Truthful Lies, Respectable Murder » Comments from Left Field wrote:
[…] MistahTibbs in comments @ The Politic, “the RCMP said after Dziekanski’s death that he was in a state of excited delirium,†[…]
Posted on 24-Nov-07 at 4:58 pm | Permalink
Donald Rolfe wrote:
Portable electric chair? Robert Dziekanski’s death is the tip of the R.C.M.P. iceburg and beneath lies a darker truth. Their behaviour has been eroding for years with numerous documented civilian claims of murder, abuse of power, and racial indifference. They behave like military gangs and treat civilians like enemies. Who is training them? Something is terribly wrong in Canada when people are electrocuted, shot, beaten, and frozen to death without a trial. Help!
Posted on 24-Nov-07 at 6:58 pm | Permalink
Freethinker wrote:
What a brilliant commentary! I agree wholeheartedly. Sometimes the authorities are so full of policy and procedure that they completely lose contact with common sense. If an unarmed woman who also didn’t speak his language, could calm him down through a sheet of glass, why couldn’t four apparently trained professionals? It beggars belief!
Posted on 25-Nov-07 at 2:11 am | Permalink
Jacek S. wrote:
Hellow, I live in Poland and I would like to give You my point of view of this tragedy.
I can’t understand how it could happen (especcayly in such rich and developed country, and after 9/11) that one man can be held in the airport for 10 hours? Isn’t it strange? Maybe Polnad is a poor, developing country but in example in Katowice airport it couldn’t happen, such guy after couple hours would be observed by couple cameras and probably someone from the airport stuff would ask him for his passport, after which further action should be simple and easy to take, without killing a man.
After 10 hours of sitting in an airport many people can act strange, that man thought that Canada is a beautiful civilazed country and was probably sure that even if he made some rumour to let someone take care of him, he wouldn’t be killed. Twenty years ago in Poland, such situation could take place, now it is very hard to imagine somethink like it anywhere in Europe.
Finally, Canadians don’t think that people in Poland hates You, many of us has a greate sympathy for your country however now it could be smaller, people in Polnad don’t want revange… Maybe You could come here on a vacation, it isn’t third world country and what’s more policy will try to help you if they find out that you got lost…
Posted on 25-Nov-07 at 7:02 am | Permalink
Mike Brown wrote:
The RCMP did not sit on Dziekanski’s neck. One officer KNEELED on his neck consequently choking Dziekanski if he had vomitted.
Posted on 25-Nov-07 at 7:25 pm | Permalink
Peter wrote:
To MistahTibbs:
U r cop, so no wonder u take their side.
Answer me this:
If tasers were given to cops to use INSTEAD of firearms then what would happened there then.
Would they empty their clips at the guy?
Do not bs me that 4 big cops can not take one guy down. And he does not look like UFC fighter to me.
4 of me would have no problem to put u down.
For sure. And I,m only 160 lbs.
Training does wonderfull things, and those cops should have a training.
Incopetent trigger happy, lazy to do their real job rcmp 4some should get their jobs terminated at least.
Cops are above the law here and that must change.
One can kick the crap out of me for no reason at all and then its his word vs mine.
And it is me who would end up with assault charge or sumthin.
Just like it happened in other case here in Canada few days ago.
Profesor of university was charged with punching a cop. His lawer showed the court video showing the cop starting the violence, and punching the professor.
Cops explonation after the video:
“I got medical cond that makes me feel like someone punched me in the face if I get TOUCHED in the stomach area”
yeaaaa right.
Posted on 30-Nov-07 at 7:29 am | Permalink
tomax7 wrote:
…this was involuntary manslaughter, no question about it.
Those 4 RCMP, the hoards of YVR Security and the fat arsed Custom’s people should hold their heads in shame for the rest of their lives.
Innocent blood was shed.
Posted on 01-Dec-07 at 2:27 pm | Permalink
tomax7 wrote:
Dziekanski lay dying after Taser hit as border agent scoured airport for him
OTTAWA — A border services officer who spoke a few words of Robert Dziekanski’s native tongue may have come within minutes of helping avert the Polish immigrant’s death, newly released documents show.
http://calsun.canoe.ca/News/Na.....46666.html
Posted on 30-Mar-08 at 4:09 pm | Permalink
Neville Ross wrote:
This incident is the reason why I will NEVER fly anywhere again in my lifetime. This bullshit incident is the result of an over reactive, fear crazed, xenophobic, and to be brutally frank, racist North American public that has allowed the destruction of two bank towers to make them fly off of the handle as soon as someone screams, yells, or says something off-putting.
Only brainwashed, right-wing sheeple could let things get to this point because of 9/11, and because of that, this tragedy is the result. Robert Dziekanski, who was from Poland, was a white guy-what would happen to me, a black man, if I came through the airport and was treated the way he was? I’d be as dead as him, and no one would give a fuck whatsoever.
Until North Americans get over 9/11, and they can calm down enough, I will just have to be content with the memories-however faint-of having traveled to the West Indies when I was 2-3 years old, and of having traveled to LA when I was 14-15.
Don’t get me wrong, I love travel, but I sure as hell don’t want to have to die for it.
Posted on 13-May-08 at 4:59 pm | Permalink
William Hutcheson wrote:
The plain and simple truth is that the RCMP officers murdered Mr. Dziekanski. I though the Canadian police forces were better trained than those of most democratic countries but I now find that they are as incompetent as those I dealt with in banana republic regimes.
Posted on 15-May-08 at 3:47 pm | Permalink
Charles Anthony wrote:
Mr. Hutcheson,
The police forces may have actually followed their training protocol with regards to taking a person down but the cause of death may not have anything to do with the taser.
Mr. Smith makes an excellent point:
I re-watched that video and an officer was certainly kneeling on either his head or his neck.
Posted on 18-Jun-08 at 6:57 am | Permalink
Witness wrote:
Hi,
We want to write a few words about the murder of the defenceless man
from our country who was murdered by strangulation, suffoccation and
broken neck at the airport in Vancouver.
He was murdered by murderers, bandits, monsters, beasts, terrorists,
tormentors, torturers, oppressors, psychopaths, mentally sick, druggies,
tampon smokers, fetishists, discriminators, racists, retards, morons,
poo-pooheads, brainwashed, manure, dung, maniacs, idiots, imbeciles,
donkeys, garbage, trash, shit, rats, assholes, dicks, dirty swines, corrupted
swines, dogs, coyotes, pimps; producers, smugglers and dealers of drugs;
pederasts, pedophiles.
The same as above-mentioned terrorized, tortured, tormented
and murdered the Aboriginal-Native People, Chinese, Japanese and other
immigrants and this is happening at present day.
Bye
Think! These murderers burned holes in his body and burned his eye.
This murder was on the base of hate, discrimination and racism.
This murder was premeditated, this murder was ordered, commanded, persuaded
and blackmailed by Border Services officer Adam Chapin.
Only for writing about the facts of the murder of Robert Dziekanski, they want to
murder us Maniac Campbell, Psychopath McGuinty and Monster Fantino, etc…
Sincerely
People , Witness
http://www.RobertDziekanskiFac.....ogspot.com
Posted on 30-Aug-08 at 1:49 pm | Permalink