I just read Aaron’s recent post on the Waterloo board’s recent school board meeting. All I can say is that if the gays, lesbians, transsexuals, clueless and neopolitan among us feel so abused in public schools, maybe they should put all that extra energy into productive use by funding their own school system where they can teach their own values and keep their totalitarian doctrines to themselves. At least then they’d be in an environment where they’d finally achieve the *diversity* level they’ve been wailing about all these years… And hey! I’m sure that school would have the most stylish uniforms in the region!
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Smarter than Ezra wrote:
Good idea, and then get the Tories to fund it. SMART ONE!
Posted on 24-Sep-07 at 7:45 pm | Permalink
Aaron Unruh wrote:
They’re currently using that energy to force the rest of us to celebrate their sexuality. Remember, it’s no longer enough to just be tolerant.
Posted on 24-Sep-07 at 8:06 pm | Permalink
Smarter than Ezra wrote:
I think you should work on tolerance as a first step, Aaron. Leave your kids to the public school system, and they will turn out just fine.
Posted on 24-Sep-07 at 8:46 pm | Permalink
Aaron Unruh wrote:
No need to. I tolerate you, don’t I? What is your definition of tolerance anyway?
Posted on 24-Sep-07 at 10:18 pm | Permalink
Greg Farries wrote:
Guys, please - enough…
No one is interested in all this
Posted on 24-Sep-07 at 10:36 pm | Permalink
George Freeman wrote:
Excellent point, Matthew! The GLBT Fundamentalists should be told to get their own school, that is, if they wish to inculcate pupils with the central tenets of their religion.
“Tolerance” seems to be one of their biggest rhetorical sticks in the public domain. And the GLBTers have not justified here why those who do not belong to their cult should tolerate such “celebration of sexuality” in school. Celebration is NOT toleration, it’s a form of endorsement and conformism.
Turning back to the initial thread on this story, Dalton had asked me the following:
“George, I’ve noted you make a point of specifying that Lee Harris is gay every time you raise his arguments.
If you feel being gay, per se, conveys special authority in this area, may I suggest you compare his view to that of other gay writers on the issue?
Or does “inside knowledge†only convey special authority when the speaker agrees with you?”
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Sorry. I had responded to this, I thought, but for some reason my comment never posted.
In answer to Dalton’s question, I don’t think that “being gay” confers any more authority than, say, “being a cook” is authoritative in authoring a cook book. It is a question of practise.
That said, “being gay” is readily considered a form of victimization by one’s own sexual desires. That is, it is popularly believed that unless you are gay, you have no idea how hard it is to be gay. And since you can’t—supposedly!—do anything to avoid “being gay,” life is tough. This is obviously nonsense because human beings are capable of empathy. And, also, because being gay is not the same as “being male” or “being female,” or even being of some race or another. Being gay is an intelligent response to certain sexual desires, desires that are, in turn, influenced by that intelligent response.
Lee Harris is no victim of his sexual desires! And this is clear because he is a homosexual who is also capable of appreciating a reasonable argument; namely, the view that gay marriage is both imprudent and stupid.
According to STE’s line of thinking, this should not be the case! Harris supposedly has a stake in gay marriage, as a homosexual.
For some, it is shocking that any homosexual would ever admit that marriage between a man and a woman is a fundamentally unique traditional basis for the family; thus worthy of endorsement and protection by the state.
Posted on 24-Sep-07 at 11:40 pm | Permalink
George Freeman wrote:
Remember, these GLBTers want to “celebrate” their “sexual orientation.” They don’t seem to appreciate how having one of those is dehumanizing because it degrades their intelligent capacity to choose what they become; thus they become victims of their sexual desires. [This is true of heterosexuals who “celebrate” their “sexual orientation” as well.] And if you are a victim of your sexuality, having a “sexual orientation” becomes a great excuse for every failure to launch and live in the real world as both intelligent and moral, taking full responsibility for how you live.
THIS IS WHY these homosexual activists are so desperate for public validation of their lifestyle. Their lifestyle is not actually one they can justify, rather, only excuse.
Posted on 25-Sep-07 at 12:02 am | Permalink
Anonymous wrote:
“human beings are capable of empathy”
Good point, so without celebration (because to be honest, I personally don’t really need anyone to celebrate anything or give me a parade - like Harris, I have my shit together, have a very stable life, and don’t really give a shit what other people think about me and my life because I have made it - however, this doesn’t mean I need to put my empathy aside for these kids, does it? Especially because I was one of these kids in a pretty nasty rural school in Southern Alberta as a kid - no one should be scared to go to school - being a teenager is hard enough - and they deserve to go to school free of harassment), how do you think you would put your empathy into practice if you were the principal of this school, George?
“Brooke Young and Alexandra Hick, on the other hand, said queer youth face discrimination on a daily basis and it’s time something was done.
Young, who co-ordinates the OK2BME program for gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgendered and questioning youth in Waterloo Region, said one lesbian youth called her recently, terrified to return to her public school because of her sexual orientation, she said.
In an interview, Young said she hears about physical gay-bashing incidents in Waterloo Region schools once or twice a month on average but suspects there are more, because many students are too afraid to report them.
There are also more subtle effects, she added. Gay youth hear slurs against them multiple times a day, every day, she said. Many feel isolated — one youth recently said in a survey he doesn’t have any friends because he is gay.
Nor are students the only ones who are the problem. Young said she has heard from youth she works with about teachers making anti-gay slurs and gay and lesbian teachers feeling afraid to come out at school because they feel colleagues won’t be supportive.”
On the topic of “taking full responsibility for how you live”, again, I ask, if you were the principal of this school, how would you make people take responsibility for treating other students and teachers this way? Or, would you just turn a blind eye because it is ok to discriminate?
Irrespective of your ideological speeches, George, I want to hear you TRY to come up with a practical solution to this problem of homophobia in schools, because Matthew’s “solution” is neither practical nor (if he wanted to force the point) legal.
Posted on 25-Sep-07 at 5:46 am | Permalink
Smarter than Ezra wrote:
Oops, that was me above.
On my bus ride in this morning, I kept thinking about my challenge to George, and will preface it with this: I am no longer interested in discussing the merits of SSM with this group. I don’t really care whether or not you think it is moral, rational, or has anything to do with common sense. I also don’t care what Lee Harris has to say on the topic. From a policy perspective, my focus will be, from this point forth, how and what we need to do to ensure consistency with the law as it stands today. Irrespective of what you think of SSM, it is not going away, it is a legal reality, and you and your children will have to tolerate it for generations. You are all smart enough to know that, I hope.
So, to make my challange more clear I will add the following, just so that there isn’t any confusion. George, if you are up to the challenge, I would like you to answer the following multiple choice / fill in the blank question to the best of your ability, keeping in mind that you believe in human empathy and taking responsibility for your actions.
If I were the principal of a publicly funded non-religious high school, and I heard reports of students and/or teachers being harrased, both physically and verbally (as outlined in the quotation above), as the head administrator I would:
A. Do nothing - it isn’t my responsibility to teach these kids that discrimination is wrong / protect these kids from discrimination and this is why [fill in the blank].
B. Find all the kids who “think” they are gay and lesbian and set them straight, because, after all, they don’t have common sense, and this is how I would address the school board and parents of these kids to let them know how I feel [fill in the blank].
C. Find a way to let the kids and teachers at the school that this is NOT ok at your school, and find a solution to the problem; and I think the best solution would be [fill in the blank].
D. Some other practical solution to the problem not mentioned in A/B/C [fill in the blank].
If you choose to answer this question, you should take the following things into consideration.
1. Your example will mean a lot to these kids.
2. You have a legal obligation as the head administrator to ensure a safe learning environment for both students and teachers.
3. You are accountable to both the provincial government and parents.
Good luck!
Posted on 25-Sep-07 at 6:56 am | Permalink
Sara wrote:
Whoa - I think your bigoted statement is “way” out of line.
Posted on 25-Sep-07 at 7:27 am | Permalink
George Freeman wrote:
“I have my shit together, have a very stable life, and don’t really give a shit what other people think about me and my life because I have made it”
Really now. Don’t you think you’re a little too narcissistic to qualify?
“Irrespective of your ideological speeches, George, I want to hear you TRY to come up with a practical solution to this problem of homophobia in schools, because Matthew’s “solution†is neither practical nor (if he wanted to force the point) legal.”
Matthew’s solution is legal. Maybe not in the totalitarian wasteland of Ontario, but Alberta’ education system is very open to alternative avenues.
Homophobia is highly overrated! People who cry homophobia at every turn are far too quick to pass off hate for simple fear, when, really, fear might be only one element of hate. I’m inclined to think that children fear spiders, more enticed to hate one another! And they hate in that uniquely cruel way that children can, with both abandon and seeming impunity.
I don’t believe any degree of “education” can “solve” the problem of hate, in whatever manifestation it be (a moral education only assists in its treatment), for the simple reason that hate is an egoistic spiritual warping of the personality; deadening any love for others as one loves oneself. Schools, as with anywhere else, need to establish an environment where standards of behaviour are upheld, authorities demand respect, and failure to comply entails escalating severity of consequence.
Furthermore, schools should aim to provide a real education in core subjects; giving students and their parents clear feedback on academic progress—that is what children go to school for. Moral education, which is especially easy to do in private schools, can be expressed in the public system through optional activities or classes having a religious ethos. Such an arrangement would force GLBTers out of the closet as wanting to inculcate their own ethos.
Beyond clear academic standards and a willingness to fail students that do not deserve to pass; beyond a willingness to expel students that do not behave, do not bully other children and show respect for their teachers; and beyond some form of optional moral education, there really isn’t much that can be done to prevent children from being cruel in the public school system. Children will be cruel. Life is tough.
Celebrating sexuality certainly won’t solve the problem, rather, it might make it worse by offending the religious sensibilities of some children.
If GLBTers wish to the celebrate the moral abandon and victimization of sexual orientation, let them set up their own school system.
Posted on 25-Sep-07 at 8:15 am | Permalink
KC wrote:
Wow you guys are still nattering on about homosexuals? Give it a rest!
I wish your federal MPs were as open about their disapproval of homosexuality as you all are.
Posted on 25-Sep-07 at 8:38 am | Permalink
Smarter than Ezra wrote:
Thank you George, I am glad you are not a school administrator. You have now helped me to decide that I will not be discussing this topic with you either. Call me what you will, I don’t think it is a productive use of either of our time.
Posted on 25-Sep-07 at 10:27 am | Permalink
George Freeman wrote:
OK
Posted on 25-Sep-07 at 11:11 am | Permalink
ruralrenegade wrote:
If they get to celebrate homosexuality then we get to celebrate Christmas in the schools.
Posted on 25-Sep-07 at 11:47 am | Permalink
Scott from Winnipeg wrote:
Better than The Onion!
Posted on 25-Sep-07 at 11:48 am | Permalink
ThePolitic.com » Gays Too Precious to Fight in War wrote:
[…] some bruising commentary here and here, this interview with top American military brass really tugs at the […]
Posted on 25-Sep-07 at 11:50 am | Permalink
Aaron Unruh wrote:
Ezra apparently missed my asking him what his definition of tolerance is, and how “celebration” factors into that definition.
Posted on 25-Sep-07 at 2:33 pm | Permalink
Smarter than Ezra wrote:
Nah, I didn’t miss it. I ignored it.
Posted on 25-Sep-07 at 2:51 pm | Permalink
Aaron Unruh wrote:
Why?
Posted on 25-Sep-07 at 3:11 pm | Permalink
Smarter than Ezra wrote:
Because.
Posted on 25-Sep-07 at 3:18 pm | Permalink
Greg Farries wrote:
Comments are now closed…
Posted on 25-Sep-07 at 5:18 pm | Permalink