Libertarianism: Sounds cool, makes no sense
August 23, 2007 · By Aaron Unruh
Mike lovingly quotes libertarian Sean Gangol:
If you truly want to live in a free society, you must have tolerance for things you don’t like. You may not like abortion, drugs or homosexuality, but these are things you have to co-exist with if you want to live free. If you are the type that want control over other people’s bodies or if you want to treat a certain group of people like secondary citizens, then a police state is the only place you belong.
To which the obvious response is:
You may not like people who think that life starts at conception, that narcotics debase the human soul, and that homosexuality is a sin, but these are people you have to co-exist with if you want to live free.
And speaking of control and a police state:
What I disagree with, is any politician allowing his/her religious views to determine his/her political decisions.
Excellent post. Short and to the point.
Have have some libertarian views , but by and large it is a failed philosophy riddled with inconsistencies.
Libertarians claim to want freedom for all but while you will always see libertarians defending socially liberal positions they will never defend the right of socially conservatives to debted those ideas freely.
Wow, that post was filled with typos.
Sorry.
Wow, you sure are getting some mileage out of my quote. You’re welcome. And I stand by it.
And for the record, Aaron, I agree 100% with what you just wrote. We do have to co-exist with pro-lifers and anti-gays. I may think they’re wrong, but they’re entitled to their opinions. Even politicians.
“We do have to co-exist with pro-lifers and anti-gays. I may think they’re wrong, but they’re entitled to their opinions. Even politicians.”
That’s very generous of you. But they’re not allowed to make any decisions that derive from their religion, right? In other words: We tolerate pro-lifers, just as long as they never say anything whatsoever on the topic nor act on their beliefs. That’s some tolerance.
The funny thing about libertarianism is that everyone can look into it and see their own beliefs reflected back at them. Mike looks at libertarianism and sees his pro-choice beliefs reflected in the doctrine that “you can’t tell people what to do with their own bodies.” One wonders if that spirit of tolerance extends from “bodies” to “guns”.
You make an excellent point Unruh: Libertarianism suits the creature comforts of atheism more than any other world view.
While Christianity places high premium on human dignity, on each individual as a child of God, it fits individuality within the “body of Christ.” Each person plays their part in the human drama, realized when they surrender their individuality to the higher calling of God’s love for mankind and the measure of grace He has afforded them; to love the Lord their God with all their heart, soul, mind and strength, and their neighbour as oneself. The individual’s life is no longer his own.
“But they’re not allowed to make any decisions that derive from their religion, right? In other words: We tolerate pro-lifers, just as long as they never say anything whatsoever on the topic nor act on their beliefs. That’s some tolerance.”
Now, now, Aaron, if you’re going to use thow my own quote back at me, don’t leave out the important bits. I never said politicians shouldn’t make any decisions based on, say anything about, or act on, their beliefs. I said political decisions.
Surely you can understand the difference? A politician should be able to base their decisions based on some rational thought, not their personal faith. That rational decision-making process should include the views of the residents, be they religious-based or not.
In other words - I don’t care so much if political decisions are made as a result of religious beliefs, so long as they are based on the wishes of the community represented by the politician, not the personal religious beliefs of the politician. Any politician who cannot make this distinction should recuse themselves from these decisions.
It may interest you to know that there is actually a debate within the Libertarian community on the abortion issue. Libertarians believe that all human beings have rights and that those rights extend to unborn babies. The question then becomes whose rights are greater the mothers or the babies and when does one supersede the other.
SAVED BY GRACE
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them {Leviticus 20:13). About 3 years ago I dropped into a black hole – four months of absolute terror. I wanted to end my life, but somehow [Holy Spirit], I reached out to a friend who took me to hospital. I had three visits [hospital] in four months – I actually thought I was in hell. I imagine I was going through some sort of metamorphosis [mental, physical & spiritual]. I had been seeing a therapist [1994] on a regular basis, up until this point in time. I actually thought I would be locked away – but the hospital staff was very supportive [I had no control over my process]. I was released from hospital 16th September 2004, but my fear, pain & shame had only subsided a little. I remember this particular morning waking up [home] & my process would start up again [fear, pain, & shame]. No one could help me, not even my therapist [I was terrified]. I asked Jesus Christ to have mercy on me & forgive me my sins. Slowly, all my fear has dissipated & I believe Jesus delivered me from my “psychological prison.†I am a practicing Catholic & the Holy Spirit is my friend & strength; every day since then has been a joy & blessing. I deserve to go to hell for the life I have led, but Jesus through His sacrifice on the cross, delivered me from my inequities. John 3: 8, John 15: 26, are verses I can relate to, organically. He’s a real person who is with me all the time. I have so much joy & peace in my life, today, after a childhood spent in orphanages . God LOVES me so much. Fear, pain, & shame, are no longer my constant companions. I just wanted to share my experience with you [Luke 8: 16 – 17].
PEACE BE WITH YOU
MICKY
People seemed to have misunderstood the article that I wrote for Libertarian Enterprise back in August. People seem to think that I have no tolerence for Conservative views. That is untrue. I do tolerant Conservative views. In a free society tolerance for different views is vital. However, that doesn’t mean that we all have to agree with a certain view. Nobody has the right to impose his/her will on those who don’t want it. When you force your will on somebody, you basically become an overbearing parent. In all fairness, concervatives aren’t the only ones who have trouble with the concept of free will. People on the left are just as bad. First it was their smoking bans, now it is starting to get to the point where they want to tell us what to eat.
I don’t understand why so many people have a hard time with this concept. If you truely want to be free, you have to live in a society where the government doesn’t act like overbearing parents.
I wish for the day when I can go to a voting booth and cast my vote for the absolute limitation on gov’t with a pistol at my side. How many of you know that you cannot do this? What a kick in the face of every American!! Only when the individual and state’s right are finally returned to their rightful place will I know that our country has finally overcome the burden placed upon it by Lincoln and his Federalists!!!
Vote Libertarian or by all means tread on my ignorant ass.
How are you of an opinion that a woman should be able to kill her unborn children, but then argue for individual rights?
Kevin is right, a baby must have some rights as well, with the basic right to life being first and foremost.
The time for a man and woman to decide whether to have children is before they conceive them. After that they have already made the choice.