Comments on: Introducing: Economic Change Deniers http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2007/04/21/introducing-economic-change-deniers/ Conservative group weblog that publishes daily commentary on political events and topics affecting Canada, the United States and the world. Tue, 02 Dec 2008 11:24:33 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=abc By: ruralrenegade http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2007/04/21/introducing-economic-change-deniers/#comment-160219 ruralrenegade Wed, 25 Apr 2007 15:05:47 +0000 http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2007/04/21/introducing-economic-change-deniers/#comment-160219 It's tough to be a tory when Mr. Tory is blathering on about climate change. Would someone please address this? It's difficult enough picking up a newspaper and seeing the over-the-top liberal bias in print everyday but when the conservatives start appeasing the climate change lefties in the news, it becomes impossible to even finish my breakfast. It’s tough to be a tory when Mr. Tory is blathering on about climate change. Would someone please address this? It’s difficult enough picking up a newspaper and seeing the over-the-top liberal bias in print everyday but when the conservatives start appeasing the climate change lefties in the news, it becomes impossible to even finish my breakfast.

]]> By: Scott from Winnipeg http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2007/04/21/introducing-economic-change-deniers/#comment-160118 Scott from Winnipeg Mon, 23 Apr 2007 17:06:43 +0000 http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2007/04/21/introducing-economic-change-deniers/#comment-160118 I’m not convinced that Kyoto is the perfect solution, not sure that there is such a concept. Measures that are effective without substantial negative impacts are perhaps the table stakes. Carbon trading in particular seems like a very slippery slope. But Kyoto is ratified, it’s an international law. I don’t believe we have the option of simply getting up and walking away from it. Apart from the impacts to credibility and reputation, I wonder about what sort of precedent that sets. The polarization on this issue on both ends seems to snuff any reasonable discourse. There’s more thought on this than I have time or energy to type. It’d be interesting to have community panels on this type of thing. Hmmmm… http://www.tellus.org/ http://www.pembina.org/pdf/publications/Oilsands_PCP_Marlo_Edm.pdf I’m not convinced that Kyoto is the perfect solution, not sure that there is such a concept. Measures that are effective without substantial negative impacts are perhaps the table stakes. Carbon trading in particular seems like a very slippery slope.

But Kyoto is ratified, it’s an international law. I don’t believe we have the option of simply getting up and walking away from it. Apart from the impacts to credibility and reputation, I wonder about what sort of precedent that sets.

The polarization on this issue on both ends seems to snuff any reasonable discourse.

There’s more thought on this than I have time or energy to type. It’d be interesting to have community panels on this type of thing. Hmmmm…

http://www.tellus.org/
http://www.pembina.org/pdf/pub.....lo_Edm.pdf

]]> By: Kelly T Konechny http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2007/04/21/introducing-economic-change-deniers/#comment-160102 Kelly T Konechny Mon, 23 Apr 2007 06:01:28 +0000 http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2007/04/21/introducing-economic-change-deniers/#comment-160102 Scott, send the links to those two reports, I'd be interested in reading them as well. I'm still trying to get through the actual Kyoto accord, have you it read top to bottom? I'd be interested why you think of it as the best of all solutions, and what other solutions you have placed it squarely against. Scott, send the links to those two reports, I’d be interested in reading them as well.

I’m still trying to get through the actual Kyoto accord, have you it read top to bottom? I’d be interested why you think of it as the best of all solutions, and what other solutions you have placed it squarely against.

]]> By: roger http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2007/04/21/introducing-economic-change-deniers/#comment-160087 roger Sun, 22 Apr 2007 20:47:19 +0000 http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2007/04/21/introducing-economic-change-deniers/#comment-160087 Liberal Sen.Kenny was the funniest of them all , he held up the Document and declared that people can't just produce a Paper to predict dire times in the future and not back it up with solid evidence from experts . Exactly Mr.Kenny , the IPCC report is flawed and from what I read in the 2001 IPCC Documentation it proved the Historical Data for climate change was a Retro-Active guess applied to the Computer Model numbers that were inputed . Last week on Michael Coren Live there were 4 Experts that didn't contest the claim that Earth's temperatures do change over time, they merely argued the claims of Co2 levels and how Humans make up the 90% of it was an outright lie when the original Numbers 10/90 was reversed by the Eco-wacko's to suit their agenda , they made it read 90/10 but even that was misleading. One Guest explained that within the 10% of Human based Co2 production is the 90% expelled from breathing out Co2 that plants need to grow and inturn produce Oxygen so we can grow and make more Co2 and on and on.... the cycle goes. Where was Sen.Kenny to demand the Al Gore's of the World detail the numbers used to predict a dire future of flooding and water shortages . Liberal Sen.Kenny was the funniest of them all , he held up the Document and declared that people can’t just produce a Paper to predict dire times in the future and not back it up with solid evidence from experts .

Exactly Mr.Kenny , the IPCC report is flawed and from what I read in the 2001 IPCC Documentation it proved the Historical Data
for climate change was a Retro-Active guess applied to the Computer Model numbers that were inputed .
Last week on Michael Coren Live there were 4 Experts that didn’t contest the claim that Earth’s temperatures do change over time, they merely argued the claims of Co2 levels and how Humans make up the 90% of it was an outright lie when the original Numbers 10/90 was reversed by the Eco-wacko’s
to suit their agenda , they made it read 90/10 but even that was misleading.

One Guest explained that within the 10% of Human based Co2 production is the 90% expelled from breathing out Co2 that plants need to grow and inturn produce Oxygen so we can grow and make more Co2 and on and on….
the cycle goes.

Where was Sen.Kenny to demand the Al Gore’s of the World detail the numbers used to predict a dire future of flooding and water shortages .

]]> By: KPK http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2007/04/21/introducing-economic-change-deniers/#comment-160084 KPK Sun, 22 Apr 2007 19:53:44 +0000 http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2007/04/21/introducing-economic-change-deniers/#comment-160084 Scott from Winnipeg, do you have a link to the Tellus report? I wouldn't mind reading it. The report Baird presented was actually from his department. It projects that in order to reach Kyoto targets by 2012 you would have to implement a $195 per tonne carbon tax which would cool the economy down. The $35 per tonne isn't high enough to do it by 2012. This report was to discredit those who would say we can actually reach our targets by 2012. In that respect it was effective. Especially since it was backed up by Canada's most prominent economists. Jaccard was actually the one who tore up the Liberal Green plan saying it wouldn't even get close to reaching the required targets. Seeing Rodriquez criticize Drummond was a laugh. The opposition is boxed in a corner and they know it. They will have to admit that in order to stay in Kyoto, the only way they can do it is buy purchasing credits abroad - vindicating the government's position all along. Scott from Winnipeg, do you have a link to the Tellus report? I wouldn’t mind reading it. The report Baird presented was actually from his department. It projects that in order to reach Kyoto targets by 2012 you would have to implement a $195 per tonne carbon tax which would cool the economy down. The $35 per tonne isn’t high enough to do it by 2012. This report was to discredit those who would say we can actually reach our targets by 2012. In that respect it was effective. Especially since it was backed up by Canada’s most prominent economists. Jaccard was actually the one who tore up the Liberal Green plan saying it wouldn’t even get close to reaching the required targets. Seeing Rodriquez criticize Drummond was a laugh. The opposition is boxed in a corner and they know it. They will have to admit that in order to stay in Kyoto, the only way they can do it is buy purchasing credits abroad - vindicating the government’s position all along.

]]> By: anonymous http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2007/04/21/introducing-economic-change-deniers/#comment-160081 anonymous Sun, 22 Apr 2007 17:02:05 +0000 http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2007/04/21/introducing-economic-change-deniers/#comment-160081 PM Harper was criticized for appointing Baird as Minister of the Environment, but it's clear to me anyway, that he made a terrific decision. PM Harper was criticized for appointing Baird as Minister of the Environment, but it’s clear to me anyway, that he made a terrific decision.

]]> By: Scott from Winnipeg http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2007/04/21/introducing-economic-change-deniers/#comment-160071 Scott from Winnipeg Sun, 22 Apr 2007 14:44:11 +0000 http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2007/04/21/introducing-economic-change-deniers/#comment-160071 Has anyone here read the Tellus report? As far as I am know, it's the only report to study both the costs and savings of Kyoto implementation. Have you read also the report from Pembina Institute that the tars ands could go green for a net cost of about $1 per barrel? It's a claim that Suncor itself does not contradict. The wild swinging may be an attempt to kill the "zombie lies", as they've been coined; those lies, no matter how often they are killed, rise up and seek to feast on more brains! Blah blah blah. Has anyone here read the Tellus report? As far as I am know, it’s the only report to study both the costs and savings of Kyoto implementation.

Have you read also the report from Pembina Institute that the tars ands could go green for a net cost of about $1 per barrel? It’s a claim that Suncor itself does not contradict.

The wild swinging may be an attempt to kill the “zombie lies”, as they’ve been coined; those lies, no matter how often they are killed, rise up and seek to feast on more brains!

Blah blah blah.

]]> By: Alberta Girl http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2007/04/21/introducing-economic-change-deniers/#comment-160061 Alberta Girl Sun, 22 Apr 2007 11:16:26 +0000 http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2007/04/21/introducing-economic-change-deniers/#comment-160061 Sooooo..... the left (along with the Fruit Fly Guy and the Failed Presidential Candidate - holding a paper drafted by some committee) can put out predictions that the world will end in 10 years if we don't immediately implement Kyoto, but poo poo predictions from the right about the economic costs of that implementation. Hmmmmm......Hypocrasy at it's best. Sooooo….. the left (along with the Fruit Fly Guy and the Failed Presidential Candidate - holding a paper drafted by some committee) can put out predictions that the world will end in 10 years if we don’t immediately implement Kyoto, but poo poo predictions from the right about the economic costs of that implementation.

Hmmmmm……Hypocrasy at it’s best.

]]> By: Ben in Ontario http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2007/04/21/introducing-economic-change-deniers/#comment-160054 Ben in Ontario Sun, 22 Apr 2007 07:02:46 +0000 http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2007/04/21/introducing-economic-change-deniers/#comment-160054 Yes, indeed--for fifty years or so the left tried to take over our lives by seizing control of the economy . . . and wherever that happened disaster ensued. Now that the leftist approach to economic (mis)management has been irrevocably demonstrated as a failure they are trying to seize power by gaining control over the environment. No one can say that they are not flexible in their approach, but the goal remains the same. Economic and societal ruin leading to absolute control by the self-appointed few. Yes, indeed–for fifty years or so the left tried to take over our lives by seizing control of the economy . . . and wherever that happened disaster ensued. Now that the leftist approach to economic (mis)management has been irrevocably demonstrated as a failure they are trying to seize power by gaining control over the environment. No one can say that they are not flexible in their approach, but the goal remains the same. Economic and societal ruin leading to absolute control by the self-appointed few.

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